ZPE_Logo
  
Search        
  Create an account Home  ·  Topics  ·  Downloads  ·  Your Account  ·  Submit News  ·  Top 10  
Mission Statement

Modules
· Home
· Forum
· LATEST COMMENTS
· Special Sections
· SUPPORT ZPEnergy
· Advertising
· AvantGo
· Books
· Downloads
· Events
· Feedback
· Link to us
· Private Messages
· Search
· Stories Archive
· Submit News
· Surveys
· Top 10
· Topics
· Web Links
· Your Account

Who's Online
There are currently, 131 guest(s) and 0 member(s) that are online.

You are Anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here

Events

Hot Links
Aetherometry

American Antigravity

Closeminded Science

EarthTech

ECW E-Cat World

Innoplaza

Integrity Research Institute

New Energy Movement

New Energy Times

Panacea-BOCAF

RexResearch

Science Hobbyist

T. Bearden Mirror Site

USPTO

Want to Know

Other Info-Sources
NE News Sites
AER_Network
E-Cat World
NexusNewsfeed ZPE
NE Discussion Groups
Energetic Forum
EMediaPress
Energy Science Forum
Free_Energy FB Group
The KeelyNet Blog
OverUnity Research
Sarfatti_Physics
Tesla Science Foundation (FB)
Vortex (old Interact)
Magazine Sites
Electrifying Times (FB)
ExtraOrdinary Technology
IE Magazine
New Energy Times

Interesting Links

Click Here for the DISCLOSURE PROJECT
SciTech Daily Review
NEXUS Magazine

The mysteriy of 4Be7 quadrupole moment
Posted on Sunday, September 15, 2013 @ 16:07:13 GMT by vlad

Science WGUGLINSKI writes: Trying to discover the quadrupole moment for 4Be7

The exchange of emails is between me and the editor N. J. Stone, of the nuclear table published by Oxford Physics, Clarendon Laboratory

============================================================
From: wladimirguglinski /To: n.stone1
Subject: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 19:36:01 -0300

Dear Dr. Nicholas Stone

The Nuclear Table published by Clarendon Laboratory gives the nuclear spin and magnetic moment of the nucleus 4Be7, respectivelly 3/2 and -1,398: http://faculty.missouri.edu/~glaserr/8160f09/STONE_Tables.pdf

But the quadrupole electric moment of the 4Be7 is not quoted.
May you tell me why ?

Regards
Wladimir Guglinski



============================================================
From: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
To: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 10:22:09 +0000

Dear Dr Guglinski,

To give you a quick answer – I have no record of a measurement of Q for 7Be. Do you have a reference to a publication? I am aware of the magnetic moment result PRL 101 212502 Okada et al and of the more recent one by Nortershauser et al PRL 102 062503.

Yours,

Nick Stone
============================================================

============================================================
From: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
To: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
Subject: RE: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 08:53:14 -0300

Dear Dr. Stone

No, I dont have any reference.

Actually I dont understand why there is not a record of Q for 4Be7, because along 20 years some theorists have enphasized the importance of getting its measurement.

In the paper Solar Neutrinos: Where We Are, What We Need , published in 1998 byJohn Bahcall , he explains the importance of the measurement of the quadrupole moment for 7Be for the understanding of the sun shines by nuclear fusion reactions among light elements in its interior.
http://www.sns.ias.edu/~jnb/Papers/Preprints/Groningen/paper.pdf
In the paper he says:
“A measurement of the 7Be quadrupole moment would help distinguish between different nuclear models for the 7Be(p,g)8B reaction (see 38) ”.

38. A. Csoto, K. Langanke, S. E. Koonin, and T. D. Shoppa, Phys. Rev. C. 52 , 1130 (1995)

Csolo and Langanke had published several papers along 20 years, where they explain the importance of the measurement of Q for 7Be. In a paper publihed in 2008 they write in the page 6:

We also note that a precise measurement of the 7Be quadrupole moment or radius could test the self-consistency of our conclusions.
http://arxiv.org/pdf/nucl-th/9408001.pdf

So, I dont understand why we dont know the Q for 7Be yet.

Is not possible to measure it in the Clarendon Laboratory ?

Regards
Wladimir Guglinski
============================================================

============================================================
From: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
To: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:37:54 +0000

Hi, Quadrupole moments are particularly hard to measure in light nuclei since they are small and so produce small energy splittings which require very high resolution. The 9Be Q was measured by atomic beam which has the highest resolution. Laser spectroscopy would probably not be good enough.
============================================================

============================================================
From: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
To: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 12:41:37 +0000

Further, theoreticians can call all they like, but it doesn’t provide a method for the measurement.

I’m now retired. There is no experimental group at the Clarendon that could attempt the measurement.

Your best bet would seem to be the Japanese groups with some variant of beta NMR, but I haven’t checked if there is suitable beta decay in 7Be.
============================================================

.

.

.

AND THEREFORE THE MYSTERIY OF 7Be CONTINUES:

My question to Dr. Stone:

==========================================================
From: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
To: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
Subject: RE: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 11:31:27 -0300

Hi, Dr Stone
I suspect that 7Be has Q very near to zero, that’s why it is not quoted in nuclear tables.

I suspect that the experimentalist already had tried to measure it, and they had expected to measure a value near to the value of Q for 9Be (0,053 barns).
As the experimentists did not succeed to get a value far away from zero (and as they know that from the theoretical viewpoint 7Be cannot have Q very near to zero) then they did not report the results of experiments.

Dr. Attila Csolo had calculated theoretically that Q for 7Be must be in order of 0,07barns.

I have my suspiction because of the following:
9Be is stable
7Be has half-life of 53 days
Both them are very small
Q for 9Be had been measured by atomic beam, and got 0,053 barns.

———————————————————–
CONCLSUSION : why cannot the Q for 7Be be measured by atomic beam ?
———————————————————–

So, I suspect that Q for 7Be had already been measured by atomic beam (like done for 9Be), but the experiments had NOT detected a value far away of zero (as expected theoretically).

Do you think that my suspiction can explain why Q for 7Be is not quoted in nuclear tables?

Regards
Wladimir Guglinski
==========================================================

.

.

.

Reply by Dr. Stone

=========================================================
From: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
To: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: errata: FW: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 15:48:54 +0000

Just to say that IF a measurement had been made, it would certainly have been published.
==========================================================

My reply:
==========================================================
From: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
To: n.stone1@physics.ox.ac.ukcsoto@matrix.elte.hu
Subject: RE: errata: FW: quadrupole electric moment of 4Be7
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 19:58:07 -0300

Dear Dr. Stone
Suppose that an experimentalist had measured the Q for 7Be, and the experiment had detected nothing.

Would the experimentalist report the value Q= 0 ?

4Be7 has A= 7 (odd), and therefore it cannot have Q= 0 , by considering the current nuclear models.

Then , instead of to report the value Q= 0, probably the experimentalist would rather interpret the value zero due to some imperfection of the measurement.
And from such interpretation he decided do not report the result.

After all, as 9Be and 7Be have practically the same radius, I cant see any reasonable explanation so that to justify why 9Be had been measured and 7Be had not.

regards
Wladimir Guglinski
==========================================================

,

.

.

Dr. Nicholas Stone did not reply my last email, where I had shown that we have strong evidences supporting the hypothesis that 4Be7 has quadrupole moment very near to zero (an IMPOSSIBLE hypothesis, according to current nuclear models).

The email ahead had been sent to Dr. Attila Csolo.

====================================================================
From: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com
To: csoto@matrix.elte.hun.stone1@physics.ox.ac.uk
Subject: effort to get 4Be7 quadrupole moment
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2013 22:48:53 -0300

To: Dr Attila Csolo
cc: Dr. Nicholas Stone

Dear Dr. Csolo

The Standard Nuclear Physics have been successful for the development of technology.
But there are nuclear phenomena which do not fit to what we expect from the current nuclear models.
In particular, the current nuclear models cannot explain the behavior of some light nuclei. And it seems that the quadrupole moment of 4Be7 is one among several nuclear properties which do not fit the current nuclear models.

As I have shown along a series of emails exchanged with Dr. Nicholas Stone, it’s hard to believe that Q for 7Be had not been measured yet. And as it is not quoted in nuclear tables, we have to conclude that Q for 7Be is very near to zero, and this is the reason why it had not been detected in any experiment, unlike had happened with 9Be, which Q had been measured to be 0,053barns.

As a value near to zero of Q for 7Be cannot be fit to any of the current nuclear models (shell model, core model, cluster model, etc), then obviously there is need to look for a new nuclear model, capable to explain such bizarre nuclear property of 7Be.

A new nuclear model is proposed in my book Quantum Ring Theory, published in 2006.
http://www.bauuinstitute.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22:quantum-ring-theory-foundations-for-cold-fusion&catid=8&Itemid=103

The reason why 7Be has Q near to zero is shown in the page 48 (Figure 37) of my paper Stability of Light Nuclei , published by Rossi’s blog Journal of Nuclear Physics:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/files/Stability%20of%20light%20nuclei.pdf

Of course you do not need to consider that my new nuclear model is correct.
But you need to consider it from the following very important viewpoint:
——————————————————————
the possibility of conciliating a value of Q very close to zero for 7Be , if we consider a new nuclear model working with some new principles missing in the Standard Nuclear Physics.
——————————————————————

Dear Dr. Csolo,
of course it is more comfortable to neglect the existence of any experiment which disprove the current nuclear models, and to continue trying to explain the nuclear phenomena by keeping those current models, with the hope that one day in the future the theorists will succeed to conciliate their models with all the results of experiments.

However it’s hard to believe that this sort of procedure will lead the theorists to a successful end. Science cannot be developed by such a way.

So, it’s mandatory to face the reality, undertaking an effort so that to eliminate the controversy regarding the value of the quadrupole moment of 7Be , because if its Q is really very near to zero, then the theorists need to recognize that we need a New Nuclear Model, working with some new principles missing in the current Standard Nuclear Physics.

If we do not undertake such effort, some theoretical nuclear paradoxes will never be eliminated, and the Nuclear Physics will be forever lying on false principles and wrong nuclear models.

Regards
Wladimir Guglinski
====================================================================



 
Login
Nickname

Password

Security Code: Security Code
Type Security Code

Don't have an account yet? You can create one. As a registered user you have some advantages like theme manager, comments configuration and post comments with your name.

Related Links
· More about Science
· News by vlad


Most read story about Science:
100 miles on 4 ounces of water?


Article Rating
Average Score: 0
Votes: 0

Please take a second and vote for this article:

Excellent
Very Good
Good
Regular
Bad


Options

 Printer Friendly Printer Friendly


"The mysteriy of 4Be7 quadrupole moment" | Login/Create an Account | 1 comment | Search Discussion
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

No Comments Allowed for Anonymous, please register

And the mystery of the 4Be7 quadrupole continues… without understandable reason (Score: 1)
by vlad on Saturday, October 19, 2013 @ 19:12:59 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
In 2003 the physicists M. Nemouchi, P. Jönsson, J. Pinard and M. Godefroid published the paper Theoretical evaluation of the 7;9Be¡ 2s2p2 4P1=2;3=2;5=2 hyperfine structure parameters and Be 2s2p 3Po electron-affinity , where they propose an experiment so that to measure the quadrupole moment for the 4Be7, based on hyperfine structures.
https://dipot.ulb.ac.be/dspace/bitstream/2013/47084/3/be-8.pdf


In the Introduction they write:
——————————————————-
1. Introduction
The accuracy of the 7Be(p; °)8B reaction factor is often presented as an important limiting factor in the determination of the flux of high-energy neutrinos generated in the solar core [1]. Although the key to the solar neutrinos problem might have been found recently [2], it is still worthwhile to improve the experimental and theoretical estimates of the relevant low-energy astrophysical S17 factory. In this line, it has been shown that this S factor is linearly correlated with the quadrupole moment of the 7Be nucleus [1]. There is thus some hope to refine the value of the S factor from the knowledge of the nuclear quadrupole moment.
——————————————————



So, the authors emphasize the importance of the 4Be7 quadrupole moment for the confirmation of the theory which explains the flux of high-energy neutrinos formed by the nuclear reactions in the Sun.


In the Introduction they continue saying:
——————————————————
Atomic spectroscopy experiments on unstable beryllium isotopes are performed these days, thanks to the ISOLDE facility at CERN [4]. In this latter reference, isotope shift and hyperfine structure measurements are announced [5] for 7;9;10Be II and a preliminary value of the nuclear magnetic dipole moments of 7Be has been reported in this context [6].
The nuclear quadrupole moment value for 9Be has been extracted by combining the ab initio electric field gradient value [7] and the experimental quadrupole coupling constant of the metastable levels 9Be(2s2p 3Po 2;1), measured by the atomic-beam magnetic-resonance method [8]. A similar experiment for exploring the hyperfine structure of 7Be in its metastable levels would not be easy to realize on a low produced radioactive element such as 7Be.
Therefore, some experiment consisting in measuring the hyperfine structures of the metastable negative ion 7Be¡(2s2p2 4P) which should allow the extraction of the nuclear moment is hereafter proposed.
——————————————————-


This is very strange. They say that the method applied to 9Be cannot be applied to 7Be because “would not be easy to realize on a low produced radioactive element such as 7Be”.

But for the research of looking for the Higgs bóson the CERN had available billion of dollars. While there is not money so that to produce 7Be element in the quantity necessary for the experiment to measure its quadrupole moment.

And so, because the CERN is so poor, those four authors of the paper had been constrained to propose another complex method of measuring the quadrupole moment Q for 4Be7.

However, 6C11 is radioactive too, its half-life is 20,4 minutes (while 4Be7 has 53days), and its quadrupole moment had been measured by atomic beam, and the experimentalist got Q(6C11) = 0,032 b.

Very intriguing…

.

Now look what they write in the item 4.4 :

——————————————————
4.4. Hyperfine structure of 7Be¡
7Be has a rather long half-life (T1=2 = 53:29 d) and is a good candidate for performing atomic spectroscopy measurements. Like the stable isotope 9Be, its nuclear spin is I = 3=2. The magnetic moment has been estimated recently by comparing hyperfine structures of 2s 2S1=2 ¡ 2p 2Po 1=2 for 7Be+ and 9Be+, as obtained from collinear fastbeam laser spectroscopy with optical detection. The preliminary value reported in [6] is = 1:398(15) ¹N. The quadrupole moment of this isotope has been estimated to be -0,060 < Q(7Be) < -0,069 b [1] from a set of parameters that reproduce simultaneously the most important properties of 7Be, 7Li and 8B. We adopted the mean value, i.e. Q(7Be)= -0,0645 b.
——————————————————-


And so, the method is not very complex only, but is also very strange, because the authors had started up from the following premises:

1- It is considered that 7Be has a structure similar to 7Li. But we are not sure this is true (3Li7 has the structure shown in the Fig. 19 page 23 of my paper Stability of Light Nuclei published in Rossi’s blog, while the structure of 4Be7 is shown in the Fig. 37 page 48, and the two structures are very different)
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/files/Stability%20of%20light%20nuclei.pdf

2- They start their method by considering an initial value Q= -0,0645for 4Be7.
However, they are just proposing a method for measuring the Q for 4Be7.
Therefore, if Q for 4Be7 is very different than -0,0645, it means that their method is unacceptable, because it is introducing an initial error in the method.



In the end of the paper at the bottom of the page 13 they write:
——————————————————
However, the B3/2 factor, from which one can extract the quadrupole moment, is much smaller, being estimated to be -0,8 MHz from the present work. Despite its smallness, this quantity should be still large enough to allow its determination using the experiment described above: with a distant between the Ramsey loops of 10 cm, the interaction time is of the order of 10 ¹sec, and the linewidth of the resonance is of the order of 65 kHz. The central position of the resonance could then still be measured with an accuracy of the order of the kHz, quite sufficient to extract a reliable value of the B factor.
—————————————————–


Yesterday I found the email of Dr. Jönsson and Dr. Godefroid , and I sent them the same message to each one of them, asking if the experiment proposed by them had already been made.


The email to Dr. Godefroid is ahead:

From: wladimirguglinski@hotmail.com =========================
To: mrgodef@ulb.ac.be
Subject: your paper of 2003 on 7Be quadrupole moment
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 22:43:30 -0300

Dear Dr. Michel Godefroid

In 2003 you had published a paper together with M. Nemouchi, P. J¨onsson, and J. Pinard :

Theoretical evaluation of the 7;9Be¡ 2s2p2 4P1=2;3=2;5=2
hyperfine structure parameters and Be 2s2p 3Po
electron-affinity
https://dipot.ulb.ac.be/dspace/bitstream/2013/47084/3/be-8.pdf

In the end of the article it is written:
——————————————————
However, the B3=2 factor, from which one can extract the quadrupole moment, is much smaller, being estimated to be ¡0:8 MHz from the
present work. Despite its smallness, this quantity should be still large enough to allow its determination using the experiment described above: with a distant between the

Ramsey loops of 10 cm, the interaction time is of the order of 10 ¹sec, and the linewidth
of the resonance is of the order of 65 kHz. The central position of the resonance could
then still be measured with an accuracy of the order of the kHz, quite sufficient to
extract a reliable value of the B fator.
——————————————————

So, I would like to know if the experiment sugested in the paper had already been made.

Thank you for the attention

Wladimir Guglinski
===================================================

.

Of course, if 4Be7 has actually quadrupole moment very different than -0,0645 as the authors had assumed in their paper, sure that any experiment will never get Q for 4Be7 between -0,06 and -0,07 (as predicted from the current nuclear models, and considered in their paper).

And if my supposition is correct and 4Be7 has quadrupole moment near to zero, the experimentalists will never succeed to measure it.

Dr. Jönsson and Dr. Godefroid did not reply to my email



 

All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2002-2016 by ZPEnergy. Disclaimer: No content, on or affiliated with ZPEnergy should be construed as or relied upon as investment advice. While every effort is made to ensure that the information contained on ZPEnergy is correct, the operators of ZPEnergy make no warranties as to its accuracy. In all respects visitors should seek independent verification and investment advice.
Keywords: ZPE, ZPF, Zero Point Energy, Zero Point Fluctuations, ZPEnergy, New Energy Technology, Small Scale Implementation, Energy Storage Technology, Space-Energy, Space Energy, Natural Potential, Investors, Investing, Vacuum Energy, Electromagnetic, Over Unity, Overunity, Over-Unity, Free Energy, Free-Energy, Ether, Aether, Cold Fusion, Cold-Fusion, Fuel Cell, Quantum Mechanics, Van der Waals, Casimir, Advanced Physics, Vibrations, Advanced Energy Conversion, Rotational Magnetics, Vortex Mechanics, Rotational Electromagnetics, Earth Electromagnetics, Gyroscopes, Gyroscopic Effects

PHP-Nuke Copyright © 2005 by Francisco Burzi. This is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL. PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty, for details, see the license.