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'Clock ticking' on global warming: UN climate chief
Posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 @ 21:34:20 UTC by vlad
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Time is running out in the fight against global warming, the UN's top
climate change official warned as a new round of UN talks got started
here Thursday.
"There is little time left to
get a solid negotiating text on the table. Clearly the clock is
ticking," said Yvo de Boer, executive secretary of the UN Framework
Convention on Climate Change.
"People in a burning house cannot afford to lose time in an argument," he said, citing an Ashanti proverb.
The Accra gathering must strive
to "reach agreement on the rules and tools" that developed countries
will use to cut greenhouse gas emissions, he told more than 1,600
delegates from 160 nations...
Full story: http://www.physorg.com/news138548051.html
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'Man-Made' Global Warming does not exist!! (Score: 1)
by Kadamose on Sunday, August 24, 2008 @ 16:12:48 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Sorry, but I'm getting really sick and tired of hearing all these so-called scientists singing from the official songsheet. Man-made global warming does not exist -- the current climate issues are all caused by the SUN. This has been verified by many scientists, including those enlisted within the ranks of the US Army [blog.wired.com].
It is the scientists who are ignoring the official global warming propaganda who we should be listening to [www.prisonplanet.com].
The manmade global warming religion was created solely for the purpose of introducing a carbon tax onto the populace. With a carbon tax in the equation, one will have to pay to even exhale because breathing leaves a so-called carbon footprint. It is just another form of control that the elite are using to usher in the final remnants of the new world order. And the masses are falling for it - hook, line and sinker.
WAKE UP!
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Re: 'Man-Made' Global Warming does not exist!! (Score: 1)
by malc on Monday, August 25, 2008 @ 00:51:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mripley | A carbon tax is not what you state. It is instead a pathetic attempt by government to look as though it is doing something about a problem which some (like yourself) just don't believe in no matter how much evidence is presented. A carbon tax allows companies to make money by still buring fossil fuels....that's all ie business as usual. Ironically a carbon tax preserves the Status Quo which is something you believe in!
Governments love people like you since it allows them to do nothing. So they will ensure that your point of view gets more air time than it deserves considering the balance of evidence on the table (ie a huge and increasing man made warming versus a minute and decreasing "its all natural"). For this reason the world is doomed. Vast areas of the world will change causing starvation and deprivation on scale we have never witnessed. Every single "natural" mechanism put on the table has been proved to be wrong. Not wrong as in it does not happen but wrong as in being the cause of the atypical warming. Every single one. Let me state it again just in case you try and skip past a sentence you don't like. Every single one wrong.
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Re: 'Man-Made' Global Warming does not exist!! (Score: 1)
by Kadamose on Monday, August 25, 2008 @ 02:13:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | There is absolutely NO evidence, whatsoever, that CO2 emissions cause global warming. None. Zilch. Nada. It's funny how all the scientists who refuse to accept man-made global warming as a fact get spurned and ridiculed, while the 'fake' scientists have their ideas and 'theories' accepted as fact, when there is no evidence to back them up. These dogmatic beliefs are no different than the religions around the world which believe in a almighty god that, ever so conveniently, decided to hide the proof of its existence. You, and people like you, are blinded by belief. I thought we were living an Age of Reason, but, obviously, that desired age has still yet to come.
Oh, and if you still want to hold onto your belief about man-made global warming, then why is the arctic ice 30% larger than it was last year? [www.prisonplanet.com] Oops. There goes your silly belief. But, like all people who have their beliefs ridiculed and debunked, you will go out of your way to find some way to keep that belief alive; in fact, I'm counting on it.
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Re: 'Man-Made' Global Warming does not exist!! (Score: 1)
by TechsArcana on Monday, August 25, 2008 @ 06:10:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Dear Malc,
I would love to find a link which proves "the short-term
statistical fluctuations in the Sun’s irradiance and the longer-term
solar cycles" are not the causes of global warming. Kadamose was able to post his link, can you please help us out and post one that supports your postion?
I am not wedded to either position, but I find it difficult to credit man-made CO2 which accounts for an increase of only 1 part in 10,000 (.01% - from 285 ppm to 385 ppm = 100 parts per million) in the face of increased solar radiation which has increased 10-20 times as much [en.wikipedia.org] (1 part in 1000, or .1%) during the same time period.
It is certainly possible that the CO2 has a magnified effect for some reason not immediately obvious. It is also possible that the CO2 signal lags the warming [www.lomborg-errors.dk].
I have also been trying to track down volcano records for as much of the holocene as possible (esp the time period of 1600 - 2000) to show that the usual "starting point" (1850) for the temperature anomoly is colder than "normal" (whatever that might be for our planet.) Everyone in the anthropomorphic global warming (AGW) camp seems to focus on the start of the industrial revolution, without ever considering that it was a lot colder than average (for completely natural reasons) during that time period (see Maunder [en.wikipedia.org] and Dalton [en.wikipedia.org] minimums.) To put it another way: the current "warming" may be the norm, while the temperature during 1850 was an anomoly.
Even if man-made CO2 is the culprit (or even a culprit) of global warming, I am not clear how we can solve the problem by preventing carbon fuel use without both:
1) Forcing the developed world to return to a Amish lifestyle.
2) Prevent the undeveloped world from ever developing.
Both of these are unacceptable (and immoral) solutions in my opinion. It may be possible to undo the effect (global warming), but we should not focus on limiting the source, because we can easily cool the planet for a lot less energy than we gain by usage of fossil fuels. This means it will be a net energy gain (without heating the planet) so long as we remember to spend some of that energy is moving the heat off planet (or doing indirect solar heat trading by preventing some solar heat from reaching us as an offset.)
If we are going to have a tax on fuel usage, it should be no more than the cost of heat mitigation for that particular fuel source (too bad for you Hydrogen fuel users, since Water vapor is 400 times more heat-trapping than CO2 ;)
Anyway, I just wondered if you had any specific links to prove your point, or if you were just repeating what you had heard somewhere else (if so, did they post any links to prove what they said?)
Later.
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Re: 'Man-Made' Global Warming does not exist!! (Score: 1)
by deatopmg on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 @ 05:57:12 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | You hit every nail squarely on the head but you forgot 1 thing; what he is saying is "SEND MORE MONEY (my wife wants a bigger house and new car)"
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GLOBAL WARMING TIME BOMB TRAPPED IN ARCTIC SOIL: STUDY (Score: 1)
by vlad on Monday, August 25, 2008 @ 22:09:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | GLOBAL WARMING TIME BOMB TRAPPED IN ARCTIC SOIL: STUDY August 24
Climate change could release unexpectedly huge stores of carbon dioxide from Arctic soils, which would in turn fuel a vicious circle of global warming, a new study warned Sunday.
Full story at http://www.physorg.com/news138803036.html [www.physorg.com]
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING TIME BOMB TRAPPED IN ARCTIC SOIL: STUDY (Score: 1)
by TechsArcana on Tuesday, August 26, 2008 @ 09:42:04 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Looks like more scare-mongering to me. Focus on the worst possible case in warming, imagine that the reaction runs to completion with an ever-renewing source of carbon, and then totally neglect any carbon squestering effects.
from the link:
> This is roughly equivalent of one sixth of the entire carbon content in the atmosphere.
Currently there are 385 parts per million (ppm) of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere (.0003) If ALL of the carbon in the artic soil were released, it would only add 64 ppm(.000064) And there is no way that ALL of the carbon would be released. This is hardly "unexpectedly huge stores of carbon dioxide" (unless your expectations were unrealistically small to begin with or your past models didn't account for this at all) And once all the Carbon had been released, there wouldn't be any more, so it could not "fuel a vicious circle of global warming" at best, it would be a small extra blip.
from the link:
>The Nobel Prize-winning UN
panel of climate change scientists
[please don't get me started on the IGPCC]
>project temperature increases by
century's end of up to six
>degrees Celsius (10.8 degrees Fahrenheit) in
the Arctic region,
Assuming this alarmist top-end prediction is accurate, (I don't think it will be,) it means that for most of the winter the ground is still going to frozen. There will be only a few weeks of extra biological activity. and this story also totally neglects the added carbon sequestation due to increased plant growth (trees and other plants will be able to grow for longer at higher latitude, and thus store more carbon than is likely to be released from decay processes.)
>which is more sensitive to global warming than any
other part of the planet.
Which is why even if the worst possible case of warming (from whatever initial cause) occurs, it will not be world-ending cataclysm that most people seem to think. Most of the warming will occur at night, during the winter, in the high latitudes, and will be most welcome to the humans and animals living there.
Main Greenland ice sheet is growing. Antartic ice sheet is growing (expect for the western Antartic penninsula. There is 30% more ice this year in the Artic ocean than last year.
Solar cycle 24 has been delayed, and we are probably going to have several years (if not decades assuming the cycle goes through its typical minima) of global cooling. We will be darn lucky if we don't suffer another "little ice age"
Which is why we are not hearing about "global warming" anymore, but "climate change" so they can cover their bets and blame whatever happens on human activity.
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING TIME BOMB TRAPPED IN ARCTIC SOIL: STUDY (Score: 1)
by malc on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 @ 00:34:06 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mripley | Classic example of a skeptic who has not read the article properly and has cherry picked certain details. The above response has a glaring mistake that anyone should pick up if they were to read the original article in physics.org.
Go on give it a go and post back what Techsarcana's fundamental mistake is. Unless of course you are skeptic who wishes to believe in out of context information to bolster your beliefs!
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Re: GLOBAL WARMING TIME BOMB TRAPPED IN ARCTIC SOIL: STUDY (Score: 1)
by TechsArcana on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 @ 04:15:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Malc,
Let's not play games. If you think I've made a mistake, please post it.
I'm happy to be corrected. It's a great way to learn things.
I'll give a go myself. (I don't think either of these is glaring, but that's a matter of opinon I suppose)
Some of the trapped carbon could become methane (which is a
more potent greenhouse gas) but methane quickly (approx 6 months IIRC)
becomes CO2 in the atmosphere. It's long-range effects are minimal unless there are vast stores of it (undersea Methane Hydrates for example are a valid concern IMHO.)
The 1/6th figure is only for North American Artic regions. I did see this when I was writing my post, but since the amount in European and Asian Artic regions was not studied or quantified, I decided not to include it, since it doesn't change my main point(s): The article focuses solely on the negative effects of Artic warming, and (what is the opposite of cherry in this context?) picks the amount of warming to increase the scare potential.
If you had something else in mind, please enlighten me.
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