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Spin waves and the ZPE
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 @ 03:07:34 GMT by vlad

Science "...Taking two magnets with the bubbles condition into them by a large EMP field (only works with certain magnets...) and placing a caduceus or bifilar coil between them along with a standard coil 90 degrees of the other. This is said to produce at least 1KW of ZPE...Also its said to be over unity (100%) and can be made to run on its own power after start...I'm leaving the rest up the other guys here...." (A very interesting discussion from the Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com)

--- In Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com, "(ALJ-1108) Consultant." wrote:

Hello All,

…But the topic here is ZPE (aka negative energy, aka Zero Point Energy). Let's put this into terms so that other can understand and use ZPE as a reference: ZPE (Zero Point Energy)....

Quantum mechanics claims the vacuum consist of fluctuating energy. Recent advances in the theories of the zero-point energy and nonlinear thermodynamics open the possibility of cohering this energy. THIS could be VERIFIED by REPEATABLY producing BALL LIGHTING in laboratory...MODERN PHYSICS may ALLOW the possibility of tapping energy directly out of the fabric of space.

In simple terms we been using magnets in a lot of stuff lately and most of the time the magnets were arranged North to South or Vise-versa. Now here comes a new kid on the block North-to-North or South-to-South also with a bubble on both magnets in one pole. Here this raises a lot of questions. Where as the wires connecting to the generator tends to turn cold with current flow. Now mind you that the wire is no longer used as a CONDUCTOR. IT IS USED AS AN WAVE GUIDE for very high frequency energy (aka ZPE)...This can been seen with a setup of two north to north and two south to south magnets with one caduceus coils between the each of them tied is series and spone around within the magnetic fields which products scalar current (a product of ZPE)...Now getting back to the two magnet thing (aka VTA). Imagine a bubble like the ones in a tub when you fart but instead inside a magnet and far less stinky. Taking two magnets with the bubbles condition into them by a large EMP field (only works with certain magnets...) and placing a caduceus or bifilar coil between them along with a standard coil 90 degrees of the other. This is said to produce at least 1KW of ZPE...Also its said to be over unity (100%) and can be made to run on its own power after start...I'm leaving the rest up the other guys here....

--- In Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

Hey there,

Well, the account of 115 is very speculative in my mind--with no evidence of existence or stability (it HAS been created in an accelerator, but it was unstable). I don't see how the strong nuclear force has anything to do with gravity anyway. Unless it somehow produces enough EM radiation to equate with mass, I don't know how it would work. I also don't know how it would provide a repelling force either.

There IS something to the idea of using focused, unidirectional EM to produce a gravitational force on an object it's emitted from. Photons, unlike other particles, do not posses mass, so they can be emitted or "ejected" from something (say a lasing material in a laser) without reaction forces coming into play. But! due to E=mc^2 they produce a gravitational curvature on space time. So, if we had a powerful enough laser, it would be attracted to its own beam of photons--till the energy density in the lasing material (which is higher than the photon beam) bends the laser back onto the craft. This is the logic in the Unitel design, I believe, but I don't fully understand what they're doing. They plan to oscillate their lasing mirror in the fore section ("bow") of the craft. This "might" open up a worm hole, as moving boundaries can create negative energy density. But with all that laser power, I think it'll just smooth out the laser beam and send its positive energy into an unuseful limbo (if the problem of quantum inequality can be solved at all). My own idea of an interstellar drive would be similar, use a powerful laser to create gravitational forces, but would negate the oscillating lense in front, that would be counter productive in my view.

Anyways, negative energy density arises because of Heisenberg's uncertainty. That law provides for random oscillations even at absolute zero, where there exists non-thermal EM radiation from this "zero point" field. These EM oscillations can also dip into the negative space-time region, where there is an energy suction due to its different time polarization. But with every negative energy virtual photon that pops into existence, it is paired with a positive one that at least cancels it out. ZPE is not only positive energy, but some of this negative energy as well. The trick to make it do work.

There is some talk of nuclear spins producing negative energy somehow. I think that may be possible through superimposition of spin states, which is possible. That can only arise from two bucking magnetic fields, or a combination of e-fields and magnetic fields that align spins in 180 degree outphased ways. I currently do not have information on how e-fields align spin, but it recently was discovered to be possible by mainstream researchers. I also do not know how spins can possess two states at the same time according to a classical concept of spin. Maybe the particle simply ceases to generate a magnetic field and exists as an e-field only. Perhaps that would create inertial and gravitational effects if generated in sufficiently strong quantities?

Ball lightning is interesting. Shoulder's electrum validum, or EVs for short, may be a microscopic form of ball lightning that may use Casmir forces to remain coherent and increase energy density. There is supposedly a net gain in energy as well, but I'm unsure as to how this would be possible--except through Casmir forces creating more energy *density*. As for macroscopic ball lightning, I'm less sure of its ZPE tapping abilities, as it does not seem dense enough to evoke Casmir Forces, nor dense enough to cause pair production either. But maybe something else is going on that you might elaborate on!

The ZPE waveguided generator is very interesting, and was proposed by Moray King in one of his papers, called "Scalar Current." I'm very interested in creating a generator of this kind, and will someday I hope.

How are you so certain that magnetic bubbles are involved in the ZPE? These bubbles that you refer to, do they involve repulsing magnetic fields inside the magnets themselves? If so, I agree they may be involved in the VTA. If the plane of the magnets' ingrained repulsion fields were at 90 degrees to each other, then I believe that entanglement of the photons they emit and reflect from each other may occur. In which case, the spins of the photons would automatically change as a group, instantly across space and time. This, along with uncertainty principles, could provide an energy gain mechanism, negative energy aside.

Regards, Ed S.

In Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com, "Trans-world" wrote:

Ed, when it comes to releasing negative energy from ZPE, it seems that negative electrons come first, and only after they lose their energy (through work or resistance), they turn into negative photons. And when those run into positive photons, they cancel each other and disappear back into the ZPE.

So ZPE may consist of pairs of interlocked negative and positive photons. And if that was so, then the VTA would somehow turn these two interlocked photons into negative electrons. And that would complete the negative energy circle. The only question would then be how two interlocked photons can be turned into a negative electron.

From: emscan81
To: Sweet-VTA@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:59 PM
Subject: [Sweet-VTA] Re: Spin waves in non-magnetic materials and explaining cold wires--specificatio


I don't agree with the mechanisms you propose here. Even normal electrons don't convert to photonic energy when they do work. Their encountering of resistance produces heat, which is a form of EM as you know. But the only way electrons are completely converted into EM energy is by encountering a positron.

The ZPE is a force of nature that produces spin procession, may be responsible for the electron's distance from the nucleus, may be responsible for inertia and gravity. BUT the ZPE in truth is not virtual electron-positron pairs or virtual photons, BUT THE SOURCE of those particle's temporary existence in our reality. There is something much bigger than coupled photons or e-p pairs. It is the "shake and bake" shaking of reality. The eternal "Om" vibration that brings into beingness out of voidness--if you want to look at it metaphysically. But everything is already "there" anyway, we just can't observe it.

Energy time-polarization can be done with a few of the following mainstream ways: a moving boundary (usually expressed as mirror), the Casmir Force, and via phase conjugation (which I suspect is similar to the first method). I'm still waiting for the opportunity to examine the details of the phase conjugation experiment that produced negative energy. The implementation of some of Bearden's idea about "scalar" electromagnetics may bring to light a method of creating abundant negative energy. He was right all along that phase conjugation leads to negative energy, so he's got more credibility in my mind these days.

There may be a loophole to the law of Quantum Inequality that allows for the creation of a greater amount of negative energy than positive. Finding this loophole, I believe, will be a stepping stone into understanding over-unity processes, if they truly exist.

Best Regards,

Ed Scanlan
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:18:16 -0700
From: "Trans-world"
Subject: Re: Re: Spin waves in non-magnetic materials and explaining cold wires


you said "Even normal electrons don't convert to photonic energy when they do work. Their encountering of resistance produces heat, which is a form of EM..." Of course heat is a form of EM energy, but it is the part of EM spectrum called Infrared Radiation (IR), which consists of light spectrum, just outside of visible light frequencies. And what is light? PHOTONS!

So I was right when I said that when electrons lose some of their energy through work, they turn into photons. And of course negative electrons will therefore turn to negative photons.

Also, do you have any evidence that ZPE consists of more than interlocked positive and negative photons? I have just produced a theoretical evidence that positive and negative photons cancel out each other and thus re-enter the ZPE. So the ZPE should consist of at least the interlocked photon pairs.

Interestingly this also suggests that the law of conservation of energy DOESN'T APPLY when it comes to negative energy, UNLESS the negative energy which we have created out of nothing (like in the VTA), completes the circle by removing thermal energy out of the environment (negative photons cancel out positive ones).

So the negative photons HAVE TO cancel out the positive ones (observed as the cooling effects of cold electricity), because if they didn't, the law of conservation of energy would be violated. The net effect then is that negative energy produces work, but we "pay for it" with the heat being taken out. It basically converts heat to work with 100% efficiency. I mean, didn't the Sweet-VTA produce more cooling as the load was increased?

BTW, how do you suggest phase conjugation produces negative energy? I thought that Bearden said that it produces scalar waves.


(Read more extracts from this thread in our Forum section)



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"Spin waves and the ZPE" | Login/Create an Account | 16 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, May 26, 2003 @ 11:39:48 GMT
This is another proposed "THEORY" with no relevence. This site is gasping
for "straws" to post something.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by Johnny on Monday, May 26, 2003 @ 21:33:17 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message)
If you're not satisfied with the material this site has to offer , why don't you either provide something more interesting or take your arrogent/superior attitude elsewhere.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by vlad on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 01:21:03 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
Oh yes, beating the straw man...well it may be a straw man to you, but it’s a piñata to me…I can only say to this smart people: beat it hard boys cause when it cracks, the reward for you and the rest of the world (inclusive the bozone layer engulfed skeptics) is worth the effort!

Your kind of people continues to amaze me; you’re lurking through the FE sites in search for the “real thing” but you reject all the devices as deliberate scams or delusional measurement errors and you’re refusing any scientific/theoretical arguments if/because they’re not in line with the existing knowledge.

Have you considered for once the possibility that Floyd Sweet’s VTA phenomenon was real but just unstable, consequently not interesting for investment in those circumstances (same as cold fusion: unstable, difficult to duplicate but real, as demonstrated by many). In these cases, don’t you agree that “shooting in the dark” with empirical experiments is not the way to go? We don’t have the time now to wait for the luck to strike. Consequently, exercising our imagination on the theoretical field in trying to understand why and what is happening in order to control the experiment the way we want it, is the best way to go.

That’s exactly why I posted that theoretical discussion because it shows to me and many other open minded people reading this site, that the battle for the truth continues on all fronts without any rules but one: get to it ASAP.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 01:42:15 GMT
Science is based on OBSERVATION from which the mathematical
statements that describe those observations are posited, not the
other way round.

Get a "COLD CURRENT System" or an alleged Sweet VTA physically
working and get back to us.



Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by vlad on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 03:15:48 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
The observation exists from reliable sources (that’s how we know about the VTA and its performance). Unfortunately, the inventor took the secret in the ground with him. If we believe that wasn’t a hoax, then we have to do experimental and theoretical work to find how he did it. I’m sure you must know many instances in science when the theory preceded and helped the actual validation experiment.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 10:11:48 GMT
Who is the reliable source for this observation?



Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by vlad on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 @ 02:01:54 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
Don, what good will do to you to know who were the witnesses? Those who accepted to make their names known such as Tom Bearden, John Bedini, Mike Watson, Walter Rosenthal etc., are probably already categorized unreliable by you (in my opinion this is an insult many skeptics resort to so easily). Even if you don’t call them liars (there must have been a conspiracy obviously) then you would tell us they were all wrong. But these are physicist, engineers, etc., qualified people quite able to examine such a device first hand, and …most of all, at COP > 1,500,000, input/output energy measurements errors are hardly an issue.

Consequently, there is only one option left for a skeptic: Sparky was a con artist capable to fool all these honest and qualified people for years. If this is your opinion, our discussion must end here because both of us are wasting our time, and I can’t afford it.

The only other alternative that most of us here believe in is: this was indeed the "most elegant and most desirable of all ZPE tapping energy machines” (see other posts on this site about it – use search).


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 @ 15:27:55 GMT

Since you viewed the VTA site and posted a couple of messages from it you should of reviewed messages perrtinent to the VTA.

Mike Watson and I have exchanged messages and he has posted on the site
messages that though he visited "Sparky" and was in contact with him, he has
never been able to complete a workable VTA. Floyd would not allow Mike
to view the VTA setup when he visited him in California.

Bedini made no claim that he observed a working VTA. On the Keelynet site
Bedini posted messages to the fact that he was the "gopher" for Floyd and
obtained the magnets from a surplus shop. They were never verified as to content. Floyd cut him off because John was trying on his own to experiment
with the information he obtained from Floyd.

Rosenthal wrote an article about Floyd and his work but never stated what he
exactly observed and tested on the VTA. He did state in a message tht he thought Floyd might have an RF transmitter hidden under the VTA bench. They
were not alowed to view that area.

I asked Mike Watson to attempt to get Rosenthal to post a message concerning
his alleged VTA testingand results but Mike was unsuccessful.

As for Bearden he never saw anything. The "Cold Current" and levatation, and
power output were relayed to him from "Sparky by telephone by Bearden's
own statement. Floyd hired Bearden on Bediini's recommendation according to Bedini's post on Keelynet. At that time Floyd was desperate for money and needed to atttract investors.

If you look back at the VTA messages a year to two years ago you'll find posts
from VTA investors who claim Flyod was running a scam. He had signed up
with a number of investors and companies resulting in lawsuits.

Don Watson was to have a similar model of the VTA running at 3 watts. But no one can verify that. Don Watson claims he doesn't remember his setup and
plans to build one.



witness vs verify (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, May 29, 2003 @ 02:02:43 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com
Hundreds of thousands have witnessed the amazing machines of Joe Newman, but none have verified them. And Newman has testiminials from names weightier than those listed above. But what we don't have from Newman, and will never get, is repeatable results from multiple independent testers. And we don't have that from Sweet either. Newman really is a good reference point for any FE claim. If the evidence is no better than Joe's, and the claim no less spectacular, than it's at least as likely to be a scam as Joe's.

Rather than digging through the records of every FE con man, maybe we could learn more about ZPE studying cosmology. Big Bangs don't come around every day, but if we understood better the one we had, maybe we could understand better how to harness ZPE or why it can't be harnessed.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 01:44:20 GMT

What is the "TRUTH". What you say it is?


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by vlad on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 03:30:37 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
"I" say the energy in the fabric of space (ZPE) is immense; there are no "closed systems" from the ZPE perspective so, the conservation of energy does not apply as we understand it when ZPE is used; there is perpetual motion at the cosmic and quantum level (but not in between!?); the Casimir force showed ZPE can be harnessed for performing work...we should be able to find an asymmetric ZPE disturbance procedure to harness it continuously in ... say 10,000 years, do you agree? But then, why not tomorrow?


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 10:19:21 GMT
The Casimir force is very small. It requires as much energy to force the
plates apart as the force that pushed them together so the net effect
is zero.

Perpetual motion at the cosmic and quantum level, asymmetric
ZPE disturbance?? These words are used without validation.
They sound as if read from a sci-fi novel.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by matt (matt@zpenergy.com) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 13:53:49 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
People probably thought black holes, time-space continuum and relativity sounded awful sci-fi, too.


Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by Doug on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 17:30:12 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message)
The "effect" is small because the dimensions used in the test are at the scale of the particles that pop in and out - but which demonstrably exist.

Electrons are also "small" but that does not stop us from using electricity.

What's required here is out-of-the-box thinking that can scale up such a REAL effect.

Quantum tunnelling is also real, as is entanglement. I recall reading very negative opinions on any future practical applications of these...but in a few short years minds have been at work getting around what are after all only conceptual problems (just like Lord Kelvin's attitude in 1895 that "heavier than air flying machines are impossible").

There are many budding applications for quantum effects. Try and open your perspective a little, Anonymous.



Re: Spin waves and the ZPE (Score: 1)
by dtb1000 on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 23:08:35 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message)
I don't understand your analogy:

Electrons are also "small" but that does not stop us from using electricity.

You can scale the Casimir demo up but it takes as much energy to open the closed plates as it does to close th
plates. the net energy sum is zero.

What do you consider the practical applications of
wuantum tunnelling?


ZPE and Sprituality? (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 @ 16:54:11 GMT
(User Info | Send a Message) http://truthbells.com
I think Vlad's comments are right on and I think the arrival of ZPE will be sooner rather than later!

To stimulate some thinking, let me take this a little further out on that theoretical limb...partly because my perspective on zero point energy comes through certain spiritual studies, and not so much by way of science.

If there is a "grand design", as is obvious to myself and many others, it would not make any sense to design planets and evolving civilizations with just enough natural resources to support a techological age only so far, only to run out, as we appear to be doing. This throws the whole world into fighting for the remaining fossil fuels, as we are now starting to do!

I believe zero point energy is the next logical step in the march of an evolving technology-based species, as we are. It's also obvious to me that we would have had ZPE devices already if it were not for certain "conspiring" forces, hard at work. So, it's my belief that only with energy sources such as ZPE can we bring a sustainable technical civilization into reality. That's why it has to be...and it has to be now! Thanks for listening.





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