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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by vlad on Sunday, October 12, 2008 @ 12:12:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | Hi Vlad,
The XS-NRG prize as you envision it requires a director tackling it full-time in order for it to accomplish what you envision. If you don't step into that role, then I am doubtful that the vision will materialize.
Sterling, I'm tired of repeating this: I don't step into that role because I am aware of my limits. I am just not capable of pulling this through successfully. There are many people out there much better equipped to succeed than me, once they understand it. I don't have the time and the necessary skills and I'm not going to jeopardize the credibility of the XSF project to satisfy my ego, please understand that. But the idea is good, the only one that I think will work for what we need to do, and I'll continue to convince the world of that. It is known that "the resistance to a new idea increases as the square of its importance." The fact that you are part of the resistance is a huge disappointment to me (but maybe not so much of a surprise).
It is not likely that someone else who didn't come up with the idea will grab your idea and run with it as you envision. The kind of leader who will make a success of this is likely to be one who comes up with his own ideas, and will be busy pursuing just that.
And why not??? Would you want that kind of a "leader" who is only interested in its own ideas to pursue? Is the world made of mostly ego-centric, selfish grandomaniacs unable to recognize and adopt a great idea that is available for free, just because it is not theirs? ... Is this philosophy what you personally subscribe to as well (maybe that's a redundant question)? An idea is like a child; it has "biological" parents that sometimes may be forced to put it up for adoption. Fortunately, there are still people out there who don't care that this is somebody's else child, and, especially if the child is healthy and smart, adopt the kid and get busy raising him/her with love, to become successful individuals they can be proud of. Who do you think matters more or should get the credit for the success of that child: the biological parents or the adoptive parents who "run" with him/her full time in life? Only a moron would ignore a good and free idea (especially one that can change history and make him proud of what he left behind), just because it's not his own.
It seems a bit hypocritical to me that you point your finger at the NEC or NEM for dropping the ball in not seeing this through. You are the one with the vision, you should carry it out; and not be critical of others if they don't do it.
The NEC/NEM were constituted EXACTLY for this kind of ideas. That is PRECISELY why I joined NEC which was supposed to be a non-profit organization with mainly the same scope as the XSF. It is under your leadership that NEC stirred into a for profit ranking body for interesting, in fashion, alternative energy technologies, like this was something ignored by science and the business community out there. I said OK, maybe Sterling has a point that the NEC must get credibility that way, in order to tackle the "exotic" technology claims that represent real energy breakthroughs humans badly need. One year, then two years had passed and we were further and further from the FE revolution we all dreamed about starting. I, and maybe Todd who left the NEC for the same reason, were the only voices reminding NEC do something about the real important O/U claims that we should be focusing on for urgent validation. But you were busy with grandiose business plans and getting money from dubious people, flirting at one time with the idea of excluding the "exotics" and take a safe route to where the money is: in benign, close to market alternatives. I've made my disagreement known to the NEC a few times and was ignored. Then, a year ago, submitted the XSF proposal hoping that the NEC/NEM will wake up and embrace it in the quest for the truth about revolutionary new-energy technologies that would make all the other ones eventually obsolete. I do not feel it's hypocritical at all to point my finger at NEC and NEM for letting me down after 3 years (and everybody else hoping NEC/NEM will keep the original promise they made to their members and supporters). The vision was not just MINE, it was OURS, remember? I just proposed a better way of accomplishing it TOGETHER, since all the other already tried ways failed miserably. The NEC/NEM were the only groups of people who I thought would jump at the opportunity to try something new (the XSF), since it needed almost nothing but an open mind about the possibility of real FE, time, and certain skills that some people in the NEC/NEM certainly have. To cut this rant short Sterling, from your last sentence above, I think I got my answer: if it's not Sterling's vision, you're on your own guys!
Sure, you have a nice day job that gives you satisfaction and a good pay. But if you truly believe in this vision as it seems you do, and are driven by it, you ought to put your actions behind it and carry it out yourself. Quite your day job and bring this about.
If you're not willing to do that, then cut slack for others if they don't step up either.
(???) I hope this is a joke and not an insult to my intellect.
There are watered down version of your vision that could be accomplished by just a little extra effort on your part without requiring you to quit your day job. For example, the "Top 20 Exotics" list you suggested the NEC tackle could easily be initiated by you. PESWiki is an editable site. Just create the url, and build the page, pulling from the NEC's Top 100 list, and add a section "Promising, but not T100 yet" to include those exotics that are not yet in the T100. That would take about an hour. I participate on your site, how about you participate at PESWiki. You've posted to the site just twice, though the site has been up for four+ years. http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Vlad
Sterling, I started ZPEnergy.com as a breakthrough-energy news portal, forum, and published research archive, almost eight years ago when you were still involved in Bible studies. To refresh your memory, you contacted me in late 2003 to join your new proposed PES project. After examining your bio published at your old http://www.greaterthings.com/ site and aware of your dispute with Jerry Decker (of http://www.keelynet.com/), since your business model was radically different than mine (all volunteers, everything for free) I decided to wait and see. Since ZPEnergy was never for making money, I didn't considered you as competition; on the contrary, your success was my success and vice versa (we agreed to link to each other as well). Knowing that you are a prolific "founder" and may indeed help our FE cause, I told you that you can use anything posted on ZPEnergy on your site, since educating the public on new-energy research was our common goal. Are you asking me now that, what I'm doing at ZPEnergy and put up for everybody to use for free (in my limited spare time I should be spending with my family, after work), to duplicate it again on your site, knowing that you're home all day and also have a webmaster on your payroll??? ... I'm looking forward to shut ZPEnergy down when the XSF site is up and running and PESWiki pages can be used for each submitted device description. Yes, I can easily list 20 exotics, but you're missing the point: I have no personal experience with any of those I know about, and there may be many more interesting ones I'm not aware of at all. My request for the NEC (and not me) to put together the Top 20 exotic list was because many of the NEC members claim they have personal knowledge (experienced and even tested) of many such technologies that could be better candidates for the XSF to validate than those I would put on the list.
I recommend the page name: http://peswiki.com/index.php/T100:Top_20_Exotic_Energy_Technologies
OK, then ask each NEC member to send his list and post it on that page, then let's vote to eliminate all but the most promising 20 ... then debate and vote again to rank the Top 20, so we know who to start contacting and propose them to change the world as we know it. If, and only if (and when) we have a credible candidate willing to undergo scientific testing, we can really go full force with the XSF.
You complain that neither the NEC nor the NEM have taken up your banner, yet you've not been around to offer encouragement and to make the wheel squeak, to give it the attention it deserves.
Your hands off approach is as much to blame as anything for the lack of movement on your initiative. An email to one of the NEC discussion lists occasionally would be good to keep the issue before us and spur action on it.
Sorry Sterling but getting action and resolution on tabled proposals, wasn't that your job as the NEC president? I did post occasionally about this subject on the NEC discussion list but was essentially ignored each time. Don't expect me to beg you or anybody else to do the right thing. You are naive if you think all the opposition to something like the XSF wants to do, is all innocent.
As for us keeping some developments off the radar, that is from honoring the wishes of the person who has approached us with the technology. If someone comes to you with a technology seeking help, and asks that you not publish information about it, are you just going to ignore them and publish it anyway? I don't think so. And due to the paranoid mindset that pervades the extreme energy technology field, you can see why many prefer no public mention of their technology.
This I agree, I wouldn't do that. But the XSF deals with already working (not perfectly, as for "market ready") testable prototypes, and the XSF is designed to take care of all the inventor's worries (protect his/her name if (s)he so wishes, and the IP rights, of course). The point is, we need to get these extraordinary claims in the open. Convince the inventors of real working devices of their role and the protection we offer (to remove their paranoia). Those who, despite these assurances, refuse to validate their claims for no valid reason, than we must warn the public about that, and yes, about possible more or less clever scams. Continuing with the secrecy is maintaining the status quo, which serves nobody.
You berate the NEC for not yet validating a working exotic technology despite being in existence for three years. I don't know of anyone organization who has, including you and your network at ZPEnergy.com, nor Stefan over at OverUnity.com, though we all dabble in a lot of very interesting effects that hold out great promise, and we also foster some pretty stories of claims to exotic technology, but which evade validation.
I take that back, there is an organization under NEC Advisor, Chris Patton's guidance, which has apparently validated Timothy Thrapp's technology, but the downside there is that Timothy's terms of engagement are so ridiculous that no reasonable person with money or business expertise will play. So in terms of "validation", Thrapp fails the "politics of science" criteria, making his technology essentially of no practical use.
Well, that is exactly why I proposed the XSF to operate under certain rules. Nobody validated anything because they did not offer to inventors the terms XSF will offer. Read them again please, and if you still don't understand the difference give me a call and I'll see, in my English as the second language, how I can answer all your questions. If Thrapp is such a smart guy, he can not refuse a pile of money for essentially giving nothing and committing to nothing, just proving to the world and to science that he is right.
We've encountered that one a bunch of times, from a bunch of greedy, crazy, or paranoid inventors. They seem to have working stuff, but their personalities drive all reasonable offers of help away. Dennis Lee, Joseph Newman, Mike Brady, and even possibly Carl Tilley all seem to have good technology, but their modus operandi is a show stopper. That is the primary achilles heel of exotic energy -- exotic personalities. If we could find a way around that one, then there would be a bunch of great things coming forward.
You have that "way" before you in the XSF proposal! Let's try it seriously and I'll eat crow if it doesn't work. Next time when you go to any of these people you feel have genuine technologies, take me with you (as I'm not readily available, schedule this in time please).
The MIB account for maybe 10% of why these exotics don't make it to market. Interpersonal conflicts -- people that can't get along, inventors with impossible personalities -- comprise 40% of why these exotics don't make it to market.
This is not an excuse to do nothing, or go back to how to turn biowaste into diesel, Ettridge wind turbines and the like.
I wonder if offering a 1 million+ prize to these types would actually help them move past that primary obstacle. (Let's find out!)
Investors don't invest in just a technology. They look equally carefully at the team. Is the team capable of pulling this off?
Read the XSF proposal again. It has NOTHING to do with investors at this stage! It is done for waking up the science and getting the truth out (and consequently hope) to all people on Earth. This seems to be so hard to understand for those who mostly dream of making tons of money out of this. If any such device is validated by the XSF and the XS-NRG prize awarded with big tam-tam, I can guarantee you that investors will race each other to get inventor's attention. If you're properly positioned, you may win that race.
If we were to give $1 million to Joseph Newman or John Hutchison, how are we to know that $750,000 of it wouldn't go to Vegas, homes, retreats, and women?
The "no strings attached" provision offered to an exotic personality is nearly a guaranteed flush of money down a toilet.
If a person can't work in a team, he is as good as useless, even if he might have the most brilliant technology ever produced. He becomes his own worst enemy, and might as well not have ever come up with the idea in the first place, other than to tease the planet with the idea and possibly inspire more sane people to come up with something similar, but with the ability to also work as a team to bring it to practical application for the world.
Therefore, I recommend that the awarding of any decent prize in this field must have oversight and conditions, released in tranches based on achievement of milestones. Otherwise it's nearly certain to be blown. I don't see you or anyone being able to raise $1 million to give away with no strings attached. That's not a sustainable approach. Sane people are not likely to throw money into a bottomless pit. If I had $1 million to give away to a deserving technology, I wouldn't do it with no strings attached. I would want that money to go toward the development of the technology, and the sustaining of a moderate lifestyle for the key persons developing it; and I would want to be sure that not only did the technology work, but that the team was workable.
Holly smoke!... I lived to read those lines written in the Western world! Listen Sterling, I spent more than half my life in a communist dictatorship. Ceausescu used to "recommend" us not only what we can do with our own meager but hard earned wages, but also what temperature we must have in our bedrooms to stay vigorous, how many calories we must eat to stay healthy, how many kids we must have to meet our duty to the future of the country, etc., to name just a few of his "precious directives", as they were often called. These "directives" were apparently for our own good and protection (and some were probably so) but most of the best people fled the country anyway, some swimming across the Danube river at night ... many were shot or their head smashed in the water ... their bodies often never found. As you probably know, the dictator and his wife ended up executed at the wall after a mock-up trial staged by some of his former yes-men. People love freedom, often more than life. You (we) live in the free world, far from perfect, but for which many sane-honest people are still risking their life to reach, just for the freedom to chose what you do with your property and your life. With your thinking, you're on a dangerous path man. Let people do whatever they want with their money, if they earned/won them honestly. Educate them to know the difference between good and bad choices is all that a free society can do to "constrain" those who do not break the law.
XSF does not divide inventors into "exotic" and "non-exotic" personalities, it just honestly examines their "exotic" claims, if they want to prove their extraordinary technology beyond any reasonable doubt. XSF is after the "naked truth" and not how the inventor got to this point or how (s)he should proceed further. Only the no strings attached will bring them to us. Attaching "the strings" is PESN's (and other for profit org like it) business, since there are billions of $ to be made from bringing such a FE device to the market. I wish you good luck with it ... just don't mingle the XSF scope and modus operandi with PESN's. It is not XSF's business if John Hutchison is a team player or not, gives his money to Paris Hilton for her presidential campaign, or just flash them all down the toilet (there were billions flushed like that through bad decisions, excessive risk taking/gambling by the US government, Wall Street, etc.). If those who donate to the XS-NRG prize want to give a little money just for knowing for sure that ZPE can be tapped for useful power in John's "Crystal converters" and that the "Hutchison Effect" (antigravity) is real, than this is the right thing to do, and it is a small prize to pay (even $10 mil) for the truth that would trigger a significant scientific progress in itself. That's what the XSF is all about.
Vlad
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