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Suppression against Researchers is Real!
Posted on Saturday, June 03, 2006 @ 10:19:03 UTC by vlad

Legal nanotech writes: In these forums on alternative/free energy technologies and science, we often hear of cases in which various researchers are threatened and suppression comes against them. The following is a situation where this happened. Please get the word out. It is from Free Energy News:

http://pesn.com/2006/06/02/9500276_Water_fuel_experimenter_threatened/



Ken Rasmussen's research team has been working on a process that turns out to have similarities to the super-efficient electrolysis process being developed by Professor Kanarev. Rasmussen's work ceased after a member of the team was threatened at gunpoint.

by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


VENTURA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, USA -- On May 16, a technician who was one of a team of garage experimenters investigating a hydrogen-on-demand technology was run off the road near a rural intersection and accosted by four white, middle-aged males in black suits, carrying Glocks and Mac tens. The assailants were driving a late model, black Lincoln Town Car.

This comes just one month after Bill Williams was similarly threatened because of his experimentation with running a vehicle on a Joe cell.

The victim in this latest incident is an associate of New Energy Congress member, Ken Rasmussen, who had been working together with him on the project. Rasmussen also runs an alternative energy news service at http://www.commutefaster.com/Energy.html They had been working on the project together.

A week before the incident, Rasmussen learned of the work being done by Professor Kanarev in Russia. Both use a pulsed signal, and both were seeing similar performance rates. Kanarev holds multiple patents, and is widely published. A day before the incident, a person who was interested in funding the project of Rasmussen et al., and who had been trying to reach him since November, had finally made contact.

Rasmussen reported the incident for the first time publicly in his news today. He said, "As editor of this page, my life has now been threatened by 2 loaded guns pointed in the face of a good friend."

"Using information which could only have been obtained by monitoring digital cell phones and e-mail, the assailants portrayed to the victim that they had total control over his personal life, and was told to remain silent and to not talk to government authorities." He was told that if he did not comply, a family member would be killed. The assailants produced extensive details about this target family member. The threat also included himself, his family and all associates if he did not stop work on the process immediately. The threats made actually applied broadly to anyone working on overunity.

"I'm breaking the story to warn others who might be involved in similar technologies," said Rasmussen.

Obeying the threats made to him, the person threatened has stopped all work on the project. "When happy people start acting silent and paranoid, friends get suspicious," said Rasmussen, who waited until the necessary measures had been taken to protect the lives of those directly threatened in the incident.

At the time of the assault, Rasmussen had been in discussion with several pre-screened, suitable investors, who were waiting on Rasmussen's team to fix a final detail before attending a live demonstration.

Rasmussen addressed them publicly in today's report, saying: "For any of my previous business contacts reading this, please excuse the delay. Our lives have been directly threatened if we were to complete the item we were intending to demonstrate for you. All progress is stopped."

"Enormous amounts of personal information thrown in our face behind the guns proved to me NONE of the prospective investors had anything to do with the violence we experienced. These thugs knew things I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW. Their boss has digital cell phone tapping technology at the very least. Other details were probably obtained by wire tapping neighbors and friend's phones too."

In closing, Rasmussen said, "We have this kind warning to fellow experimenters who try to challenge the conventional physics being taught to students around the world. Challenge the system, the system that says oil is god, and there are paid mafia goons all over the world who will stop you for a few measly dollars. We know, because we met their guns face to face. Please continue your noble research, but PLEASE PLEASE watch your backside."

Rasmussen's words to the assailants were that if anyone was harmed, the plans for this technology would be plastered all over the Internet. He believes that cowering to bullies is not good policy.



NOTE: QUOTED FROM FREE ENERGY NEWS




 
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"Suppression against Researchers is Real!" | Login/Create an Account | 10 comments | Search Discussion
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Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by sparks35 on Saturday, June 03, 2006 @ 12:29:46 UTC
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rasmussen's words to the assailants were that if anyone was harmed, the plans for this technology would be plastered all over the Internet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why not just 'plaster away'???....Go public with it all.....!!!

Too much 'ME' and not enough 'WE' is the problem with all involved here.

IMO



Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by vlad on Sunday, June 04, 2006 @ 00:37:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
I just asked Mark Goldes (Overtone), MPI’s CEO if he has ever been threatened. He said it never happened.

Now, considering the advanced stage of Magnetic Power Inc. technology (demo models to be available soon, as per Mark’s statement) and its revolutionary (read disruptive) nature, there could be two explanations for that: 1) most of these “threats” are convenient exit strategies for those who failed so they don’t have to prove anything to anybody anymore or 2) Mark has nothing and the MIB know that and leave him alone.

I used to give more credit to these kinds of announcements when I started with ZPEnergy, 5 years ago. I still feel that some sort of suppression of such disruptive technologies must exist, since there are huge interests at stake (of economic, social and political nature) but, I feel the genuine incidents are very rare, if any these days, given the realization by most governments of the grave energy and environmental crisis we ALL are presently experiencing on this planet.



Re: Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by vlad on Sunday, June 04, 2006 @ 12:33:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com
Thanks Vlad. You are welcome to use what I wrote.

Now that a U.S. National Laboratory scientist is attempting to reproduce the Coler device, we are encouraging national labs, colleges and universities anywhere in the world, to reproduce that 6kW self-sustaining generator. This is another path to credibility. It makes it easy for scientists everywhere to acknowledge this field of emerging science is real, and of extraordinary importance. It also makes efforts to slow it down, or stop it, appear absurd. We continue to offer to make available our analysis of how and why we believe the device functioned to any organization of the variety mentioned above.

Incidently, from a 3d computer software simulation, we also believe the first Wesley Gary Patent describes a machine that worked. A world-wide competition to reproduce it might also help. Success would indicate the world probably never needed oil to power vehicles and provide electricity.

Mark


At 09:38 AM 6/4/2006, you wrote:
Thank you Mark for your honest reply. I hope you don't mind me mentioning that in a comment to the suppression story.

Indeed, from what I've read about Torbay and his failed demo (twice) in the US, I'm not very optimistic. Same for Brady.

I strongly agree that the key here is a WORKING small concept prototype (the TOY as you call it) that is available to ANYBODY (that can help) at ANYTIME and then, upon signed non-disclosures, repeatable/reproducible by a qualified third party, to end the veracity question once & for all!

There was an interesting article in Science Magazine (17 Mar 2006 - vol 311 see this: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/311/5767/1537a

----------------------------

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY:
Can Energy Research Learn to Dance to a Livelier Tune?

Eli Kintisch

Last week, federal lawmakers took the first steps toward creating a small, nimble agency within the mammoth Department of Energy, modeled on the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, that would help turn basic energy research into commercial technology. (Read more.)

-----------------------------

the thing that initially attracted my eye was the text below Steven Chu's picture: "Risky business. Nobelist Steven Chu backs a new agency that would fund "out of the box", high-payoff energy research".

If I were you, and having successful results with my lab prototypes, I would contact and eventually ask for an audience with this guy. My 2c.

I assure you of my support and wish you the best of luck.

Vlad
____________
ZPEnergy.com
Moderator


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Goldes
To: ZPEnergy
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 5:18 AM Subject: Re: Threats

Vlad,

We have never been threatened.

One case where someone claimed to have been the subject of a break-in etc. was an individual named Gerald Shafflander who was later convicted of fraud.

Brady claims his life has been threatened. I do not know what to believe. There are certainly parties that would have economic reasons to try and stop new technology that threatens their interest. However, as you suggest, it may just be a way of once again avoiding having to prove his claims.

This is why Demonstration Devices and toys are so urgent.

The Torbay machine, if it is real, might be a possibility along those lines. Our analysis suggests it might be genuine. However, the news story he released in Argentina is full of false information and that certainly makes me wonder.

Our own efforts along the lines of a Demo Device and toys are still slowed by the shortage of working capital. With luck that may finally change this month.

Mark


]


Re: Re: Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by nanotech on Sunday, June 04, 2006 @ 15:14:46 UTC
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The Hans Coler and Gary Magnetic Motor devices definitely need to be developed and replicated. Davidson has done work on discussing the Gary Motor. Another good one is the Kromrey "Molecular Generator". John Bedini made a version of it that went overunity, supposedly.



]


Re: Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by Kadamose on Sunday, June 04, 2006 @ 15:19:14 UTC
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You forgot to add in the third argument:

3) Perhaps Mark is one of the Illuminati scum doing all the suppressing to begin with? 




]


Re: Re: Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by nanotech on Monday, June 05, 2006 @ 15:26:39 UTC
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Are you saying, Kadamose, that one of the Illuminati/Secret Govt/International Banker/Etc's tactics could be the following? :

Set up guys who look and act and speak all the right words regarding free energy/gravity control/zpe/nanotech stuff, while in reality, their goal is to "scatter" and suppress, and "mess up" the credibility of real researchers?

Do you think this is one of the problems in the alternative energy community?


]


The REAL Truth (Score: 1)
by Kadamose on Monday, June 05, 2006 @ 18:50:17 UTC
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Yes, this is a major problem. Before I explain further, I would like to point out that the Illuminati and the Jesuits are scared shitless about this technology coming out into the open; they know that it's inevitable, but they think by 'slowly' releasing it to the world, they will be able to fool the populace (using 'straw man' tactics) into paying for a resource that the universe gives out for free! If the technology were released too soon, then their plan will fail and the world would be liberated, hence why so many researchers around the world are being killed and/or their work being suppressed.

Any researcher who claims that they have created an invention which can tap into the Zero Point Field...or the Virtual Photon Flux as Mr Goldes claims...and are willing to give such technology to the world for a 'nominal fee' should be avoided at all costs. Why? Because those who charge for their services are either:

1) Frauds.

2) Illuminati frontmen who are moving the 'agenda' forward.

Now it's time for a history lesson - and I'm going to quote David Icke on this one:

"Our 'countries' have been officially bankrupt since the 1930s and you are paying taxes, going to court, and applying for licences on behalf of a fictitious entity that does not exist, except in theory.

Oh yes, and the government is not a government, it is a private corporation. I don't remember hearing any of this on the television 'news'.

Some explanation:

1.) The bankruptcy

In the 1930s the United States, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and many others, officially declared bankruptcy to the international banks, but didn't tell the people. According to researchers into these matters, this was agreed during the years of the Geneva Conventions in Switzerland between 1928 and 1932. It would appear, however, that the documents containing the details of the bankruptcy declarations have never been made public.



The banking system

The cause of the financial collapse was the First World War followed by the Great Depression and the Illuminati banks refused to loan any more 'money' to governments (private corporations) to spend their way out of the slump. Of course, banks don't lend 'money' to anyone, only figures on a screen, and these 'countries' could have created their own currency. But the 'governments' are controlled by the same people that control the banks and so this doesn't happen.

The bankers said they would only loan more 'money' if the governments/corporations declared official bankruptcy to the banks. This was agreed and from that time these 'countries' have been owned by the banks. When people ask, quite rightly, where all their tax money goes when services are so poor, the answer is that much of it goes to the banks to service the bankruptcy.

The 'Free World'

In the United States Congressional Record of March 17th 1993 (Vol. 33, page H-1303). James Traficant Jr of Ohio told the House:

Members of Congress are official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt entity in world history, the US Government. We are setting forth hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a coroner's report that will lead to our demise.

It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1, Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and insolvent - H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress session June 5, 1933 Joint Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal Government exists today in name only.

The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers. With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part: 'The US Secretary of! Treasury receives no compensation for representing the United States'

Why are 90% of Americans mortgaged to the hilt and have little or no assets after all debts and liabilities have been paid? Why does it feel like you are working harder and harder and getting less and less? We are reaping what has been sown, and the results of our harvest is a painful bankruptcy, and a foreclosure on American property, precious liberties, and a way of life. Few of our elected representatives in Washington DC have dared to tell the truth. The federal United States is bankrupt. Our children will inherit this un-payable debt, and the tyranny to enforce paying it."

Traficant ... had the guts to speak the truth about the bankruptcy scam and much more

James Traficant was later jailed for alleged bribery and corruption because he was getting too close to the truth on many issues affecting the Illuminati agenda. He was also a maverick who was prepared to say what he thought. Here is a letter he sent from prison ... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/924087/posts

2.) 'Governments' Are Private Corporations

I will focus on the example of the United States, but pretty much the same situation exists in Britain and elsewhere. The United States corporation was created behind the screen of a 'Federal Government' when, after the manufactured 'victory' in the American War of 'Independence', the British colonies exchanged overt dictatorship from London with the far more effective covert dictatorship that has been in place ever since. In effect, the Virginia Company, the corporation headed by the British Crown that controlled the 'former' colonies, simply changed its name to the United States and other related pseudonyms. These include, the US, USA, United States of America, Washington DC, District of Columbia, Federal Government and the 'Feds'.

The District of Colombia, home of the United States Corporation that most of the world thinks is a government decided by the people.

The United States Corporation is based in the District of Columbia (Columbia = Queen Semiramis, the goddess of Babylon) and the current president of the corporation is a man called George W. Bush. He is not the president of the people or the country as we are led to believe, that's just what they want us to think. Therefore, Bush launched a 'war on terrorism' on behalf of a private corporation to further the goals of that corporation. It had nothing to do with 'America' or 'Americans' because these are very different legal entities. It is the United States Corporation that owns the United States military and everything else that comes under the term 'federal'.

The Federal Reserve - the private bank that funds the private corporation known as the United States 'Government'

This includes the Federal Reserve, the 'central bank' of the United States, which is, in reality, a private bank owned by controlling stockholders (and controllers of the US Corporation) that are not even American. 'The Fed' is the bank from which the United States Corporation borrows 'money'. The Federal Reserve was manipulated into existence in 1913 and dictates the United States interest rate that has a massive knock-on effect for the rest of the world.



Greenspan ... Illuminati man

The long-time head of the Federal Reserve or 'Fed' until this year was Alan Greenspan, a member of Illuminati front organisations like the Bilderberg Group, Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. His predecessor was Paul W. Volker of ... the Bilderberg Group, Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission. The new Fed chairman, Ben Shalom Bernanke, is another agenda place man because, if he wasn't, he wouldn't be there. The United States Corporation is owned by families and forces in Europe and the Jesuit-controlled Vatican is very much a part of this covert ownership of, not only the United States, but major European 'countries' like the United Kingdom also.

The privately owned corporation known as the United States is the holding company, if you like, and the 50 states are its subsidiaries. This means that these states also declared bankruptcy, or had it declared for them by the holding company, the 'Federal Government', but the people never knew and still don't.

You can get the detail about this elsewhere and I am only summarising the situation to give people an idea of how deep this conspiracy really goes.

3.) Straw 'People'



The 'real' you, on the level of the living, breathing, free sovereign 'you', operates under Common Law. This is defined as: 'The unwritten law developed primarily from judicial case decisions based on custom and precedent. It developed in England and constitutes the basis for the legal systems of most of the states in the United States.' (http://www.kellyinsurance.com/glossary/legal.c.glossary.html)

The government/corporation system controls, not through Common Law, but Admiralty Law, which is known in the United States as the Uniform Commercial Code. This is the law of contracts and to entrap us they have to get us to contract with them, even though they don't tell us we are doing so.

The sting has been set up so that when you register with the 'Federal Government' in any way by accepting a Social Security number, driver's licence, or any of the other official federal documents, you are, unknowingly, agreeing to become an asset-employee of the 'government' corporation. From that moment you become responsible for financing the corporation's state of bankruptcy. When you pay taxes or a court or parking fine and such like, you are servicing the bankruptcy by paying that money to 'government' agencies that are nothing more than debt-collecting agencies for the creditor banks.



'I clocked you at 100 miles an hour ... now make the cheque out to Chase Manhattan ...'

They enslave the people in their law of contracts by creating a fictional entity using our names written in all upper case. When we are born they use the birth certificate to form an account in trust and create the fictional upper case entity or 'straw man'. Black's Law 6th Edition defines a straw man as:

'A front; a third party who is put up in name only to take part in a transaction. Nominal party to a transaction; one who acts as an agent for another for the purpose of taking title to real property and executing whatever documents and instruments the principle may direct respecting the property. Person who purchases property for another to conceal identity of real purchaser, or to accomplish some other purpose otherwise not allowed.'

Another definition is: "a man of straw, one of no substance, put forward as bail or surety."

The definition of surety is:

'One who has contracted himself to be answerable for the debt, default, or miscarriage of another ... One who undertakes to pay money or perform other acts in the event that his principal fails to do so; the surety is directly and immediately liable for the debt..'

So this is the way the fraud is played. They create a fictitious 'straw man' trust at birth and the trust uses the newly born's name in all uppercase. If the free sovereign is called, say, john bloggs - all lower case - the trust is called JOHN BLOGGS.

Look at the documents we receive from taxation offices, any government department, banks, courts, police and so on. Look at your passport. Invariably they will spell your name in all uppercase because these organisations are operating under commercial law and only have jurisdiction over commercial entities - i.e. the upper case trusts. They have no jurisdiction under Common Law over 'you', the living, breathing, free sovereign.



Uppercase documents that contract us with the corporation (government) to stand surety for the 'straw man' trust

What they do is trick us into standing surety for the trust and becoming liable for its commercial operations and debts. This is done by us signing their documents, applying for licences and in countless other ways.

I have asked lawyers, court clerks and police officers why they always use our names in uppercase. They had no idea. The overwhelming majority of those working for the system are ignorant of what they are administering and enforcing. That's how the Illuminati work throughout what we call 'society'.

4.) The Gold Fringe Fraud

The US court system operates under corporate law or the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) - to administer the bankruptcy and fleece the sheep to pay back the ongoing debt. The UCC is also known as British Admiralty or Maritime (military) Law and this is why the American flag always has a gold fringe when displayed in the courts of the United States. You will find the same in government buildings and federally-funded schools.



Under the Admiralty Law of Flags, the flag displayed gives notice of the law under which the 'ship' (in this case the court or any other building) is regulated. Anyone entering that 'ship' (court) accepts by doing so that they are submitting to the law indicated by that flag. The gold fringe is a legal symbol indicating that the court is sitting under British Maritime Law and the Uniform Commercial Code - military and merchant law not common or constitutional law. Judges refuse to replace the flag with one without a fringe when asked by defendants who know the score because that changes the law under which the court is sitting.



US courts sit under the gold-fringed jurisdiction of Admiralty - military - law

If you appear in a court with a gold-fringed flag your constitutional rights are suspended and you are being tried under British Maritime (military/merchant) Law. The Uniform Commercial Code was approved by the American Bar Association, which is a franchise, a subordinate branch, of the British legal system and its hierarchy based in London's Temple district (named after the Illuminati Knights Templar secret society).



George W. Bush launched a 'war on terrorism' on behalf of a private corporation to further the goals of that corporation. Note how US troops, as here in Iraq, wear the flag with the gold fringe on their uniforms, indicating that they are representing Admiralty Law - the law of corporate contracts. They are there to serve the US private corporation and not a government representing the people. Note also that the stars are on the opposite side of the flag - this is the reverse symbolism of Illuminati Satanism, as with the classic Satanic symbol of the reversed pentagram.



By the way, if you think it is strange that a court on dry land could be administered under Maritime Law, look at US Code, Title 18 B 7. It says that Admiralty Jurisdiction is applicable in the following locations:

(1) the high seas.

(2) any American ship.

(3) any lands reserved or acquired for the use of the United States, and under the exclusive or concurrent jurisdiction thereof, or any place purchased or otherwise acquired by the United States by consent of the legislature of the state. In other words, mainland America.

All this is founded on Roman law because the Illuminati have been playing this same game throughout the centuries wherever they have gone. The leading politicians know that this is how things are and so do the major government administrators, judges. lawyers and insider 'journalists'.

As I have been writing for many years, the power that controls America is based in Britain and Europe (very much including the Vatican, the relocated Church of Babylon) because that is where the power is centred that owns the United States Corporation.



A sailing ship and the US Supreme Court. They are one and the same under Admiralty - gold-fringed - law

Those who realise what is happening and ask the court for the name of the true creditor or recipients of the fines imposed by the 'legal system' are always refused this information by the judge. The true creditors in such cases, and the ultimate recipient of the fines, are the bankers to which the corporation 'country' is bankrupt. More and more people in the United States are refusing to register in any way with the Federal Government, as news and documentation of this bizarre situation continues to circulate.

If the authorities can keep this fantastic deceit from the mass of the people all this time, you can appreciate why they were confident they could ensure that what really happened on September 11th stays comfortably under wraps.



Bush ... US Corporation President ... yes, Georgie, our thoughts entirely

There are people and organisations set up to help people free themselves from this web of deceit. Some have had significant success, while others have got themselves into serious trouble by not knowing the system well enough.

If you are going to take on the 'straw man' system you really need to know your stuff, or someone guiding you does, because every word has legal meaning and many words have meanings that are not apparent in their normal every day usage. Also, the location where you speak to people, whether you shake their hand, and other 'contractual acceptances', are traps to tie you up in 'straw man' law.

Here is a video presentation explaining the Illuminati world of contract law. It's called the Occult World of Commerce." -- David Icke












As you can see, the conspiracy is quite deep. Therefore, the only researcher you should EVER trust is the one who gives the research and the technology to the world AT NO COST! If Mark Goldes, or any other researcher for that matter, truly cared about this world and believed in what they preached about Global Warming etc etc, they would be doing precisely what Tesla was trying to achieve...instead, they're out to make it rich on money that doesn't even exist, and that, alone, tells you about their character and motives right there.






]


Re: The REAL Truth (Score: 1)
by nanotech on Monday, June 05, 2006 @ 19:58:52 UTC
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Thank you for that honestly eye-opening piece, Kadamose. You are in my view almost completely right on this matter, this conspiracy runs deep. And sadly yes, Tesla was one of the few "master geniuses" willing to give this science and tech to the world, and look what the monsters did to him.

I was in a bookstore looking at electrical engineering and physics books from the 40s to the 80s and almost all of them had NO mention of Nikola Tesla, whatsoever, his name was wiped out of it.



]


Re: Re: Re: Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by sparks35 on Monday, June 05, 2006 @ 23:56:58 UTC
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Kadamose...You are 'FULL OF CRAP'....


]


Re: Suppression against Researchers is Real! (Score: 1)
by malc on Monday, June 05, 2006 @ 00:18:19 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://web.ukonline.co.uk/mripley
Sorry but I don't buy this anymore :

1. Publish all results on the internet for all to see immediately, as a working log.

2. Don't work in the US. Then again are we to believe that these advances are only being made in the US such that that country is the only one where scientists/inventors are being threatened?

3. Even the "men in black" know that eventually such a device (assuming its possible otherwise why do they do what they do) will be developed in a foreign country.....let's pick China. The US would lose all control and income from such technology.

4. Given the global warming problems that have been suppressed in the states (BBC Panorama last night) these "powers" know that a solution has to be found otherwise they are as screwed as the general US population. 

regards,

Malcolm



 

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