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XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary)
Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 @ 20:00:21 UTC by vlad
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 Unfortunately, the energy crisis is real. It is now widely accepted that the crisis is about to reach the critical point when only a “miracle” can turn the situation around and get us out of the “mess”-- a mess in which our lazy complacency with our own energy technology has pushed us into.
Fortunately we can buy some time by stepping up conservation efforts and by deploying more and improving on existing (some quite old) clean alternative energy technologies such as solar, wind, geothermal, hydro and ocean wave, etc., switching to cleaner burning fuels such as hydrogen, biofuels, etc., or building improved nuclear reactors, fuel-cells and so on.
Well understood from a scientific and technological point of view, these "evolutionary" developments are necessary to start removing our society from the present addiction to fossil fuels, but none of them represent the quantum-leap clean energy revolution we need to avoid major problems in the near future and guarantee a sustainable development of human civilization for generations to come.
I have examined the “exotic” energy research community for a number of years, with a very open mind but a critical eye. Somebody well said that "an open mind is like an open window...without a good screen you'll get all sorts of weird bugs". I strongly believe that open-mindedness is the hallmark of good science and that central to good scientific practice is the assessment of evidence, even when this assessment may challenge the current scientific paradigm -- the prevailing set of assumptions about how the world works. Certainly, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but the process of acquiring this evidence has proven to be anything but open and easy.
The claimed extraordinary performance of a small number of more or less complex but ingenious non-conventional energy devices remain to this day to be properly confirmed by science and, if proven real, their unusual functioning adequately explained.
The Xtreme Science Foundation (XSF) and the Xcess Energy (XS-NRG) Prize
 There is little doubt that some degree of “suppression” of disruptive technologies for economic and/or “national security” reasons is officially happening through the patent office and the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951. There may be valid reasons to delay (not deny!) the immediate release of such revolutionary technologies to the public. But both science and the general public need to know the truth now since, if any one of these claims proves to be real, there is still much work to be done to catch up with the supporting theory and, with the developmental research usually needed to bring these discoveries to the market. The history of science shows that any particular area of breakthrough research can wander randomly with little progress until the correct theory is identified. When it is, then, there is an explosion of progress in that field because a coordinated effort with many contributors becomes feasible. Given the current global crisis conditions, allowing “random wondering” of potentially Earth saving breakthrough research is wrong and does not have to/should not happen, given such easy access to information we all benefit from these days with the advent of the global Internet.
Until science can examine the evidence, through an objective, widely recognized validation process, the verdict on the reality of such technologies is still out there. That uncertainty is exactly what the Xtreme Science Foundation (XSF) and its Xcess Energy (XS-NRG) Prize award will try to remove, with the help of science and all of the responsible people and organizations out there.
By proving or disproving such extraordinary claims, XSF will:
- Help remove the uncertainty -- in the public’s mind and among scientists -- surrounding these devices and, consequently, clean up and speed up the identification and recognition of real, valuable and so much needed breakthrough research in the energy field,
- Protect the public against false claims (fraudulent or not) by XSF becoming a prerequisite test to pass for any such technology before soliciting investment,
- Contribute to leveling the playing field for every inventor (today, maverick inventors struggle outside the mainstream of funding and acknowledgment) by providing everybody with the right to an honest, objective scientific validation of their claims,
- Encourage out of the box thinking to resolve the great problems we’re facing in our struggle to safeguard a decent future for humankind and all life on Earth by rewarding positive accomplishments with a substantial monetary prize, without any other strings attached to the inventor’s IP or the future development of the invention.
Progressive organizations and the general public are invited to support the XSF and the XS-NRG prize in any way they can. Pledged funds will accumulate for a predetermined time (two years, for example) in an escrow account managed by a reputable financial institution. If the legal conditions for awarding the XS-NRG Prize are not met after the established time period for validation is up, the donors can either withdraw their pledged money (most of), or leave them there for the next award cycle. An agreed upon small prorated percentage from the accumulated prize funds will be transferred to the XSF’s operating fund and be used to cover all expenses incurred with the validation process. Funds will be managed openly, and important decisions will be voted democratically by the XSF members and major supporters.
Criteria for winning the XS-NRG prize
 Inventors who have a working prototype device of a fuel-less energy generator are invited to apply. Fuel-less means: the generator does not need any conventional fuel for continuous operation beyond what is required for start-up (batteries, super-capacitors or other type of energy storage devices that are alternatively charged and discharged by the device itself during operation, are allowed). The test procedures and passing criteria will be clearly defined and agreed upon with the inventor and the testing entities.
Classes of technologies targeted for the first XS-NRG Prize cycle are primarily electro-magnetic, electro-static or plasma-based "open systems" capable of tapping the vacuum/zero-point/cosmic/ambient energy fields for useful power, with a coefficient of performance (COP) greater than one. These are considered Over-Unity devices (O/U) because, apparently, they put more power out than the operator puts in, by tapping into a yet to be recognized (by the main-stream science) ubiquitous and very dense source of potential energy (such as the quantum vacuum or the so called Zero-Point energy fields, etc.). There are many other types of alleged O/U devices that should be worth investigating, and the XSF will deal with them as well, but, I believe the greatest chance for success and the most societal and scientific benefit will come from examining first those mentioned above.
Candidates must agree to the wide publication of the test results, but nothing else. The fund will cover all their validation-phase expenses. The winner(s) will receive the financial prize (between $1 million to $10 million is the goal, depending on accumulated funds) with no strings attached, i.e. no requirement for release of IP secrets or commitments to go with certain investors to bring the technology to market, etc. The discovery will get widespread media exposure (and the inventor(s), if (s)he/they want it) which, I hope, should also help protect against potential suppression. What the winners do with their newly acquired status and wealth is up to them (the XSF could certainly help, if solicited).
This approach was chosen after the historical failure of other attempts to bring “free-energy” to the people, either through offering substantial prizes to inventors, but with strings attached, or, through the altruistic (but unrealistic) open-source route. Both these strategies were (still are) not able to attract those inventions that the XSF is targeting for validation. I invite them to join forces with the XSF so we can accomplish sooner than later our common goal of breaking the ice for the revolution in the theory and application of breakthrough new energy research.
Organization
 XSF is envisioned as a not-for-profit organization [501(c) tax exempt status in the US, for example]. Its only mission is to carry out independent, objective, unbiased and widely accepted scientific validation of "private research" in the field of new energy technologies (for now) -- research that the present scientific community and media would otherwise consider an unacceptable departure from the conventional thinking. It will also award the Xcess-Energy Prize (XS-NRG) according to well defined winning criteria.
Proposed Motto: "Supporting people and organizations willing to move beyond what they believe to be possible".
An elected/confirmed board of directors should form the operating committee and adopt its bylaws. The proposed structure (minimal/key positions) of the operating committee could be as follows:
- General Manager (GM) Main Role: coordinate and facilitate the activity of all the directors to accomplish the foundation’s goal over the assessment/validation cycle. Should be a well recognized personality with a strong believe in the foundation’s mission. Preferably is the spokesperson for the foundation.
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Director(s) “Technology Assessment” (DTA) (better three: one for the Americas, one for Europe and one for Asia) -- preferably well recognized scientists (maybe FE skeptics) Main Role: manage the Technical Assessment Specialists (members of the XSF or not) from all over the world (or the region, in case of three directors). Coordinate the validation procedure with the inventor and the testing labs/institutions and ensure the process is scientifically sound and fair. Document the validation process and the results for publication and the XS-NRG prize awarding.
- Director Finance and Legal (DFL) Main Role: manage the relation with the banking institution offering the escrow account service and manage the foundation’s own operating account. Ensure all legal aspects related to the operation of the foundation are properly covered by legal council.
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Director “Media Relations” (DMR) Main Role: manage the important media link (advertising and fund-raising campaign, publication of test results, etc.) and maintain foundation’s website (IT) (The site name XtremeScienceFoundation.org has been secured).
All the progressive individuals and organizations that could, in one way or another, contribute to the success of the XS Foundation’s mission are being invited to join. The most important ones and their response to this invitation will be listed on the foundation’s web-site.
The Technical Assessment Specialists (TAS) will be the “work horses” of the foundation’s most important activity: finding and first hand evaluating of potential candidate technologies for the XS-NRG prize cycle. These people must have a solid technical background and communication skills to be able to perform efficiently. I hope that once XSF is properly advertised in the media, those genuine inventors not afraid of testing their devices will come to us (not the other way around).
The XSF should try to contact as many as possible of the major Technical Universities that could provide laboratories able to carry out the validation process. Ideal would be to convince these labs to join the XSF and, initially, volunteer to do the testing for such revolutionary technologies. If that may be possible for the first prize cycle when awareness of the XSF is growing and the prize funds accumulate for the first time, once the foundation has sufficient operating funds, it is expected that most/all such services to be properly paid for. I have the same expectation for many other services (such as banking, legal, advertising etc.) that we might obtain for free for the start-up period, before sufficient funds accumulate in the operating account. Certainly, having a generous initial sponsor would be better and make the "birth pain" easier.
Operation/Costs
 XSF, like any other "non-profit" organization, can be operated by either volunteers and/or paid positions. In time, some members could eventually become employed full time once the operating funds reach the required level for proper compensation. It is not envisioned the need for significant non financial assets to be accumulated by the foundation since most of the work can be done by volunteers (in the beginning) and/or contracted out, once operating funds become available.
It would be ideal to find an initial sponsor to help with foundation's start-up. But even without much initial funding, the XSF can still be constituted by a few courageous, visionary people who would consider the cause worthwhile to volunteer their time and skills in the start-up phase. Compensation will come later, once the XSF and the idea behind it are well known (world-wide) and the fund-raising campaign starts giving results. Essentially, all contributors should be paid from the future accumulated operating funds, so everyone on the team is motivated to see the foundation succeed (since operating funds are % of the $ accumulated in the escrow “prize” account). We need people who have experience in such “unusual” start-ups like the XSF is envisioned to be. If you know such capable individuals/organizations who may want to take this challenge, please pass this information to them.
A professionally designed website is essential to all aspects of the XSF constitution and operation. It is estimated that such a site would cost less than $5,000 to design and implement. A webmaster (IT professional) needed to operate and maintain the site and its database is also required (but he/she can be a volunteer during the start-up phase). In the “member recruitment” period, a mock-up website that would explain the XSF/XS-NRG Prize concepts to a target audience may be sufficient. Most of the work in this stage (member recruitment) can be conducted by phone and e-mail, and requires mostly time and communication skills from the XSF founders.
Individuals and organizations promoting powerful and efficient open source Content Management Systems (such as Francisco Burzi, the PHP-Nuke creator, the Mambo Foundation, etc.) are invited to be among the founders of the Xtreme Science Foundation and take the very important task of professionally building and operating/maintaining the XSF site, the organization’s access point and window to the world.
Conclusion
 More information on how the idea for the Xtreme Science Foundation came to be and some of my attempts to convince others to join me in the effort to make it happen, can be found in some posts and comments on the main site (search for "XSF"), in the "Special Sections/Xtreme Science Foundation" module of ZPEnergy.com:
http://zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=list_pages_categories&cid=6
and in some more or less recent "Surveys" as well: http://zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=Surveys
There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that, one day, humans will harness, for all their power needs, the vast, dynamic sea of energy that constitutes the fabric of space-time continuum of our material Universe. By proposing the Xtreme Science Foundation project, my intention was/is to bring that day closer.
Ordinary people as well as every genuine scientist must wake up and understand/admit that revolutionary new ideas and breakthrough discoveries are not, and have never been, the exclusive privilege of the academics and the institutionalized science/research groups ... more so these days when access to information and expertise is a “mouse-click” away. Brilliant people are popping up all over the world and we have the opportunity to hear about them and the chance to learn from them and their work almost instantly, through this marvelous world empowering information exchange tool: the Internet’s World Wide Web. This new, vast intellectual resource should be used by all of us like a “distributed brain power”, to resolve the most pressing human, scientific and technological problems we face (same as some projects that require huge computational resources decided to use the idle time of many processors located in PC all over the world to better, faster and more efficiently accomplish their goal). That’s what the Xtreme Science Foundation was envisioned to facilitate, starting with our pressing energy problems, and, why not, extending in time, to other so called “fringe-science” domains such as alternative medicine, gravity control research, exotic chemistry, paranormal phenomena, etc. It will be searching for any valuable truth in a sea of skepticism, instead of waiting for it to surface on its own (history proved, sometimes that can take generations).
This is my proposal as I see it now, but I’ll be happy if some people like the concept, change it for better and “run with it” to make a difference. Please pass this post to all those who you feel may be interested to read it: scientists and Universities, media and Internet discussion lists, IT people and organizations, bankers and lawyers, corporations - as possible sponsors, politicians, etc., any other progressive entities capable of seeing the urgency and the potential huge benefit of such an organization for the rapid advancement of human knowledge. All comments are welcomed (use Feedback – info at zpenergy.com – if necessary). Thank you.
Best wishes and best of luck to all of us.
Vlad
______________
Moderator
ZPEnergy.com
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead, anthropologist
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by sterlingda on Monday, October 06, 2008 @ 10:39:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://PESWiki.com |
Hi Vlad,
I saw your "Executive Summary" posted yesterday at:
http://www.zpenergy.com:80/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3058
Congratulations on taking this step.
I have a few comments and questions.
First, some questions.
You talk about a $1 to $10 millionaward for the XS-NRG Prize. One might assume in the context of its first mention that at least $1 million is already available; but reading further down it seems that this is still all just an idea, and that little or no money has been raised for the prize. How much is in the kitty now?
Second question: how far along are you in establishing some kind of guiding body for this initiative?
I would like to recommend that you open up the website and just make part of the http://XtremeScienceFoundation.org [xtremesciencefoundation.org]website password protected. It seems to me that with announcing this initiative that there should also be some kind of web presence where people can go to read more, sing up, donate, or otherwise get involved.
In your account you say that the XSF will "Contribute to leveling the playing field for every inventor (today, maverick inventors struggle outside the mainstream of funding and acknowledgment) by providing everybody with the right to an honest, objective scientific validation of their claims". While this sounds noble and fair, it doesn't come across as being practical. That phraseology needs some kind of a caveat.
We at PES/NECare constantly beingapproached about new ideas, nearly daily. There is no way we could possibly test every single one of these. That would be a waste of money, resources, time. There must be a screening process -- which is what the NEC is doing. About 1-2 times a month, we encounter an exotic technology claim that seems legit, and we then hone into a process of validating as prerequisite to assisting; yet so far we have not yet found anything legitimate.
EDITING:
Here are a few wording suggestions or things I noticed that you might want to rephrase or fix:
Contradiction in wording: "Its only mission is to carry out independent, objective, unbiased and widely accepted scientific validation of "private research" in the field of new energy technologies (for now) -- research that the present scientific community and media would otherwise consider an unacceptable departure from the conventional thinking. It will also award the Xcess-Energy Prize (XS-NRG) according to well defined winning criteria."
This wording needs clarification: "An agreed upon small prorated percentage from the accumulated prize funds will be transferred to the XSF’s operating fund and be used to cover all expenses incurred with the validation process." You might give a ballpark percentage so people have some kind of idea of the level of overhead that will be involved -- something that is expected of any initiative.
typo "can bee operated"
what do you mean by: "Essentially, all contributors should be paid from the future accumulated operating funds, so everyone on the team is motivated to see the foundation succeed (since operating funds are % of the $ accumulated in the escrow “prize” account)."
Overall, my general impression of the XSF initiative is as follows. I see two objectives you are tackling: 1) validate, 2) award. It seems to me that the New Energy Congress is already established and doing a pretty good job of validating, within our limited budget. I don't know of any other public (open) body that is doing what we are doing in that regard. Rather than reinvent that portion of the initiative, you ought to use the NEC to perform that function, and focus on the second thing: collecting prize money and granting the prize. And even there, it seems to me that that second portion is something that the New Energy Congress could also administer.
It's within our mission scope and talent base, if it is plausible.
Before you get too critical of the NEC, bear in mind that there are a log of things that happen off-list that you don't know about. A lot of the vetting and screening and support initiatives happen privately, both by myself and by other NEC members.
In today's economically tight climate, I don't think you're going to have much success pulling in donations for a prize like this. If people are going to contribute something, they'll probably contribute to Greer's initiative which has more of a reputation for this kind of work and body of well-known support.
Rather than shoot for a million or more dollars for this prize, we could make it a prize for whatever has been accumulated, awarded it once a year.
The NEC is already in the business of vetting and ranking technologies. It would be a natural fit for us to recognize each year one technology that in our best estimation is the best "XS-NRG" modality.
We could even give the award without monetary backing if none is available, just for the sake of giving recognition to those who deserve it.
This would help us stay abreast of those cutting-edge technologies which aren't far enough along to warrant inclusion in the Top 100, but which are nevertheless revolutionary and potentially promising. And it would help them get the attention they deserve, to hopefully attract the funding, business expertise, and other things needed to help move them forward.
| Sterling D. Allan, CEO
| New Energy Congress: http://NewEnergyCongress.org [newenergycongress.org]
| (Pure Energy Systems) PES Network, Inc.: http://PESWiki.com [peswiki.com]
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| Profile: http://SterlingDAllan.com [sterlingdallan.com]
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by vlad on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 @ 01:06:47 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | My comments in Italics:
Hi Vlad,
...
Congratulations on
taking this step.
Thank you. I had to do it since waiting for the
NEM/NEC to join & help was no longer an option.
...You talk about a $1 to $10 millionaward for the XS-NRG Prize. One might
assume in the context of its first mention that at least $1 million is
already available; but reading further down it seems that this is still
all just an idea, and that little or no money has been raised for the
prize. How much is in the kitty now?
The first time the $1 to $10 mill is mentioned it is also qualified by: "is the
goal" (I said nothing about anything being in the kitty now). Given
the type of revolutionary devices XSF is targeting for validation, I do not
think a less that $1 mill prize is fair and enough of an incentive for any
inventor of such a multi $bilion worth technology to come forward. But,
considering that there are no other strings attached to the prize and the
inventor can take advantage of his invention as (s)he sees fit, capping the
prize to $10 mill looks reasonable enough to me.
Second question: how far along are you in
establishing some kind of guiding body for this initiative? Sterling, this is the first time I posted
my XSF/XS-NRG Prize proposal to the public. As you know, more detailed info
was sent to the New Energy Movement (NEM) and the New Energy Congress (NEC) more than
a year ago. After the NEC (or should I say you) rejected it, this exec summary
was sent to NEM (at their request) when discussions with a potential sponsor were (I was told) going on. I haven't heard from anybody since, and I consider I'm under no
obligation to continue to wait. I have clearly mentioned to both these organizations that I do not
have the time and the necessary resources to run with it, so my next step
will be to go public.That's where I am now. The SXF membership and the "guiding
body" positions are all open. Those interested will contact me for the time
being until we open the SXF site to the public.
I would like to recommend that you open up
the website and just make part of the http://XtremeScienceFoundation.org [xtremesciencefoundation.org] [xtremesciencefoundation.org]website password protected. It seems to me
that with announcing this initiative that there should also be some kind of web
presence where people can go to read more, sing up, donate, or otherwise get
involved. Yes of course, that was the original plan and the reason for waiting for the outcome of the NEM discussions with the potential sponsor (would have provided the money for the XtremeScienceFoundation.org website development, at least). Since the site I quickly put together so far is far from what I envisioned it to be, it will stay protected from the general public until I find a profesional web developer to do it properly. This announcement was intended to facilitate finding that person or organization (such as Mambo, etc.) and those interested should respond to this post and/or contact me directly (through ZPEnergy.com/Feedback).In your account you say that the XSF will "Contribute to leveling ... That phraseology needs some kind of a caveat. What the statement says is that the XSF will not discriminate based on inventor's academic qualifications, origin, gender, religion, etc... it will examine every device submitted for validation solely on its own merits. The best ones (real breakthroughs) will be scheduled for testing. XSF intends to enroll as many qualified members as possible from all over the world (the TASs) to do the initial screening (make it practical, as you say). Same with the university labs and other testing facilities that will agree to work with the XSF to validate these extraordinary claims. Remember, this is a challenge the XSF will throw to them to, essentially, disprove the claims (same as Steorn or CF, with the same massive media exposure). Since we're talking "impossible" technologies here, I see these facilities competing to secure the glory of "putting the cat back in the sac".We at PES/NECare constantly beingapproached about new ideas, nearly daily. There is no way we could possibly test every single one of these. That would be a waste of money, resources, time. There must be a screening process -- which is what the NEC is doing. Sterling, I must parafhrase your potential next VP, Ms. Sarah Palin, and say: Here we go again Sterling! You, of all people, should know better what are the main diferences between the PES/NEC and my proposed XSF. Most of your effort and time (and NEC's, unfortunately) is spent with technological improvements to well known, more or less alternative techs (solar, wind, burning waste, hydro, biofuels, fuel-cells, inverters ... you name it). These are well understood by science and also well supported by gazillions (literally) very qualified groups out there that do that for living (since they're not controversial or revolutionary/disruptive, and good and quick money can be made from the new trend of investing in alternatives these days). Appropriate for you would be to turn your private business (PESN) into such for profit group and invite NEC members to join as your partners/employees, if they want to do that kind of work. Leave the NEC to actively pursue its original mission of seeking the truth about revolutionary energy technologies that, to this day, remain to be (dis)proven and which, according to reliable witnesses, can change our destiny forever. That's what XSF is all about.About 1-2 times a month, we encounter an exotic technology claim that seems legit, and we then hone into a process of validating as prerequisite to assisting; yet so far we have not yet found anything legitimate. I, as a member of the NEC, don't seem to be aware of what you're referring to. Can you give an example? If this is done privately, it's of no use to anybody ...that's what the XSF will try to do properly.Here are a few wording suggestions or things I noticed that you might want to rephrase or fix: Contradiction in wording: "Its only mission is to carry out independent, objective, unbiased and widely accepted scientific validation of "private research" in the field of new energy technologies (for now) -- research that the present scientific community and media would otherwise consider an unacceptable departure from the conventional thinking. It will also award the Xcess-Energy Prize (XS-NRG) according to well defined winning criteria." Where is the contradiction please? Validation of these claims is the only mission of the XSF. Awarding the prize is a consequence of passing the validation test ...no passing marks, no prize (but the mission will go on). This wording needs clarification: "An agreed upon small prorated percentage from the accumulated prize funds will be transferred to the XSF’s operating fund and be used to cover all expenses incurred with the validation process." You might give a ballpark percentage so people have some kind of idea of the level of overhead that will be involved -- something that is expected of any initiative.
This will be something for the XSF management comettee to decide, based on the projected foundation's operating costs and the funds acumulated in the prize account. But even for the first cycle, I would cap it to 10%, hoping that a lot of services (advertising, lab testing, maybe banking services, etc.) can be obtained for free or paid in the future, once the prize funds grow larger (we'll try to convince these companies to join the XSF and so, sponsor it directly).
what do you mean by: "Essentially, all contributors should be paid from the future accumulated operating funds, so everyone on the team is motivated to see the foundation succeed (since operating funds are % of the $ accumulated in the escrow “prize” account)."
People keep track of their work and, if and when they succeed and money come in, they get paid retroactively. It is frequently used with small start-ups (especially software) Sort of "pay it forward" with expectation to be paid.
Overall, my general impression of the XSF initiative is as follows. I see two objectives you are tackling: 1) validate, 2) award. It seems to me that the New Energy Congress is already established and doing a pretty good job of validating, within our limited budget. I don't know of any other public (open) body that is doing what we are doing in that regard. Rather than reinvent that portion of the initiative, you ought to use the NEC to perform that function, and focus on the second thing: collecting prize money and granting the prize. And even there, it seems to me that that second portion is something that the New Energy Congress could also administer.
It's within our mission scope and talent base, if it is plausible.
Sterling, you know I proposed to the NEC to rank all exotic (claimed O/U) technologies in our database into a Top 20, so we can start focusing on something. I was ignored. In my XSF proposal, I invited NEC members to join as TASs since this is something that many can do. With all due respect, NEC does not carry the necessary credentials for a scientifically recognized validation. In the 3 years since it was constituted NEC was busy with many other things irrelevant to the XSF mission, and I'm not aware of any validation of at least one of the real important breakthrough devices that we all know about (and their inventor is still alive) that need to be validated as soon as possible. The XSF to work requires large "buy in" by reputable scientist and a totally transparent operation. It must be non profit which PES/NEC is not - a huge handicap in inventor & public acceptance. This is the first time I hear the NEC can administer the funding system I proposed for the XSF/XS-NRG (you may want to read it again). If still yes, I'll be happy to get some help here.
Before you get too critical of the NEC, bear in mind that there are a log of things that happen off-list that you don't know about. A lot of the vetting and screening and support initiatives happen privately, both by myself and by other NEC members.
I'm sorry, but I'm beyond that. The XSF is not about making money from and for inventors but getting the truth out, protecting the public from scams and hopefully liberating it from any future energy crisis. Everything will be in the open.
In today's economically tight climate, I don't think you're going to have much success pulling in donations for a prize like this. If people are going to contribute something, they'll probably contribute to Greer's initiative which has more of a reputation for this kind of work and body of well-known support.
Read the proposal again. There is an essential difference from any "strings attached" initiative such as Greer's. Where are the results (devices validated) of what Greer did with the previous 2 initiatives? Greed and secrecy will kill any such initiatives, always. People will get it and if the right people will support the XSF, it will succeed. I do not expect you and many others to understand this, since there is no personal gain in the XSF, only the desire to get this important truth out given the potential benefits for science and humanity.
Rather than shoot for a million or more dollars for this prize, we could make it a prize for whatever has been accumulated, awarded it once a year.
(see above)
The NEC is already in the business of vetting and ranking technologies. It would be a natural fit for us to recognize each year one technology that in our best estimation is the best "XS-NRG" modality.
Makes sense ...good idea. Again, XSF is not about better solar, more efficient wind turbines, etc. (they are very useful, don't get me wrong, but I think they're well taken care of already). Breakthroughs is what the XSF and the XS-NRG Prize are after.
We could even give the award without monetary backing if none is available, just for the sake of giving recognition to those who deserve it.
(A noble thought, why not?)
This would help us stay abreast of those cutting-edge technologies which aren't far enough along to warrant inclusion in the Top 100, but which are nevertheless revolutionary and potentially promising. And it would help them get the attention they deserve, to hopefully attract the funding, business expertise, and other things needed to help move them forward.
Sterling, I understand you, and you're doing a good thing ... it is just that I want an energy revolution now, since I believe it has already happened, but it is still hidden by vested interests, dogmatic thinking, ego, greed and apathy. Our priorities are different, but one time I thought they were the same. If the XSF dies before birth everybody looses ... but if it becomes what I envision it to be in time, it will indeed help humans go beyond what they think to be possible.
Vlad
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by sterlingda on Thursday, October 09, 2008 @ 22:18:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://PESWiki.com | Hi Vlad,
The XS-NRG prize as you envision it requires a director tackling it full-time in order for it to accomplish what you envision. If you don't step into that role, then I am doubtful that the vision will materialize. It is not likely that someone else who didn't come up with the idea will grab your idea and run with it as you envision. The kind of leader who will make a success of this is likely to be one who comes up with his own ideas, and will be busy pursuing just that.
It seems a bit hypocritical to me that you point your finger at the NEC or NEM for dropping the ball in not seeing this through. You are the one with the vision, you should carry it out; and not be critical of others if they don't do it.
Sure, you have a nice day job that gives you satisfaction and a good pay. But if you truly believe in this vision as it seems you do, and are driven by it, you ought to put your actions behind it and carry it out yourself. Quite your day job and bring this about.
If you're not willing to do that, then cut slack for others if they don't step up either.
There are watered down version of your vision that could be accomplished by just a little extra effort on your part without requiring you to quit your day job. For example, the "Top 20 Exotics" list you suggested the NEC tackle could easily be initiated by you. PESWiki is an editable site. Just create the url, and build the page, pulling from the NEC's Top 100 list, and add a section "Promising, but not T100 yet" to include those exotics that are not yet in the T100. That would take about an hour. I participate on your site, how about you participate at PESWiki. You've posted to the site just twice, though the site has been up for four+ years. http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Vlad
I recommend the page name: http://peswiki.com/index.php/T100:Top_20_Exotic_Energy_Technologies
You complain that neither the NEC nor the NEM have taken up your banner, yet you've not been around to offer encouragement and to make the wheel squeak, to give it the attention it deserves.
Your hands off approach is as much to blame as anything for the lack of movement on your initiative. An email to one of the NEC discussion lists occasionally would be good to keep the issue before us and spur action on it.
As for us keeping some developments off the radar, that is from honoring the wishes of the person who has approached us with the technology. If someone comes to you with a technology seeking help, and asks that you not publish information about it, are you just going to ignore them and publish it anyway? I don't think so. And due to the paranoid mindset that pervades the extreme energy technology field, you can see why many prefer no public mention of their technology.
You berate the NEC for not yet validating a working exotic technology despite being in existence for three years. I don't know of anyone organization who has, including you and your network at ZPEnergy.com, nor Stefan over at OverUnity.com, though we all dabble in a lot of very interesting effects that hold out great promise, and we also foster some pretty stories of claims to exotic technology, but which evade validation.
I take that back, there is an organization under NEC Advisor, Chris Patton's guidance, which has apparently validated Timothy Thrapp's technology, but the downside there is that Timothy's terms of engagement are so ridiculous that no reasonable person with money or business expertise will play. So in terms of "validation", Thrapp fails the "politics of science" criteria, making his technology essentially of no practical use.
We've encountered that one a bunch of times, from a bunch of greedy, crazy, or paranoid inventors. They seem to have working stuff, but their personalities drive all reasonable offers of help away. Dennis Lee, Joseph Newman, Mike Brady, and even possibly Carl Tilley all seem to have good technology, but their modus operandi is a show stopper. That is the primary achilles heel of exotic energy -- exotic personalities. If we could find a way around that one, then there would be a bunch of great things coming forward. The MIB account for maybe 10% of why these exotics don't make it to market. Interpersonal conflicts -- people that can't get along, inventors with impossible personalities -- comprise 40% of why these exotics don't make it to market.
I wonder if offering a 1 million+ prize to these types would actually help them move past that primary obstacle.
Investors don't invest in just a technology. They look equally carefully at the team. Is the team capable of pulling this off?
If we were to give $1 million to Joseph Newman or John Hutchison, how are we to know that $750,000 of it wouldn't go to Vegas, homes, retreats, and women?
The "no strings attached" provision offered to an exotic personality is nearly a guaranteed flush of money down a toilet.
If a person can't work in a team, he is as good as useless, even if he might have the most brilliant technology ever produced. He becomes his own worst enemy, and might as well not have ever come up with the idea in the first place, other than to tease the planet with the idea and possibly inspire more sane people to come up with something similar, but with the ability to also work as a team to bring it to practical application for the world.
Therefore, I recommend that the awarding of any decent prize in this field must have oversight and conditions, released in tranches based on achievement of milestones. Otherwise it's nearly certain to be blown. I don't see you or anyone being able to raise $1 million to give away with no strings attached. That's not a sustainable approach. Sane people are not likely to throw money into a bottomless pit. If I had $1 million to give away to a deserving technology, I wouldn't do it with no strings attached. I would want that money to go toward the development of the technology, and the sustaining of a moderate lifestyle for the key persons developing it; and I would want to be sure that not only did the technology work, but that the team was workable.
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by vlad on Sunday, October 12, 2008 @ 12:12:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | Hi Vlad,
The XS-NRG prize as you envision it requires a director tackling it full-time in order for it to accomplish what you envision. If you don't step into that role, then I am doubtful that the vision will materialize.
Sterling, I'm tired of repeating this: I don't step into that role because I am aware of my limits. I am just not capable of pulling this through successfully. There are many people out there much better equipped to succeed than me, once they understand it. I don't have the time and the necessary skills and I'm not going to jeopardize the credibility of the XSF project to satisfy my ego, please understand that. But the idea is good, the only one that I think will work for what we need to do, and I'll continue to convince the world of that. It is known that "the resistance to a new idea increases as the square of its importance." The fact that you are part of the resistance is a huge disappointment to me (but maybe not so much of a surprise).
It is not likely that someone else who didn't come up with the idea will grab your idea and run with it as you envision. The kind of leader who will make a success of this is likely to be one who comes up with his own ideas, and will be busy pursuing just that.
And why not??? Would you want that kind of a "leader" who is only interested in its own ideas to pursue? Is the world made of mostly ego-centric, selfish grandomaniacs unable to recognize and adopt a great idea that is available for free, just because it is not theirs? ... Is this philosophy what you personally subscribe to as well (maybe that's a redundant question)? An idea is like a child; it has "biological" parents that sometimes may be forced to put it up for adoption. Fortunately, there are still people out there who don't care that this is somebody's else child, and, especially if the child is healthy and smart, adopt the kid and get busy raising him/her with love, to become successful individuals they can be proud of. Who do you think matters more or should get the credit for the success of that child: the biological parents or the adoptive parents who "run" with him/her full time in life? Only a moron would ignore a good and free idea (especially one that can change history and make him proud of what he left behind), just because it's not his own.
It seems a bit hypocritical to me that you point your finger at the NEC or NEM for dropping the ball in not seeing this through. You are the one with the vision, you should carry it out; and not be critical of others if they don't do it.
The NEC/NEM were constituted EXACTLY for this kind of ideas. That is PRECISELY why I joined NEC which was supposed to be a non-profit organization with mainly the same scope as the XSF. It is under your leadership that NEC stirred into a for profit ranking body for interesting, in fashion, alternative energy technologies, like this was something ignored by science and the business community out there. I said OK, maybe Sterling has a point that the NEC must get credibility that way, in order to tackle the "exotic" technology claims that represent real energy breakthroughs humans badly need. One year, then two years had passed and we were further and further from the FE revolution we all dreamed about starting. I, and maybe Todd who left the NEC for the same reason, were the only voices reminding NEC do something about the real important O/U claims that we should be focusing on for urgent validation. But you were busy with grandiose business plans and getting money from dubious people, flirting at one time with the idea of excluding the "exotics" and take a safe route to where the money is: in benign, close to market alternatives. I've made my disagreement known to the NEC a few times and was ignored. Then, a year ago, submitted the XSF proposal hoping that the NEC/NEM will wake up and embrace it in the quest for the truth about revolutionary new-energy technologies that would make all the other ones eventually obsolete. I do not feel it's hypocritical at all to point my finger at NEC and NEM for letting me down after 3 years (and everybody else hoping NEC/NEM will keep the original promise they made to their members and supporters). The vision was not just MINE, it was OURS, remember? I just proposed a better way of accomplishing it TOGETHER, since all the other already tried ways failed miserably. The NEC/NEM were the only groups of people who I thought would jump at the opportunity to try something new (the XSF), since it needed almost nothing but an open mind about the possibility of real FE, time, and certain skills that some people in the NEC/NEM certainly have. To cut this rant short Sterling, from your last sentence above, I think I got my answer: if it's not Sterling's vision, you're on your own guys!
Sure, you have a nice day job that gives you satisfaction and a good pay. But if you truly believe in this vision as it seems you do, and are driven by it, you ought to put your actions behind it and carry it out yourself. Quite your day job and bring this about.
If you're not willing to do that, then cut slack for others if they don't step up either.
(???) I hope this is a joke and not an insult to my intellect.
There are watered down version of your vision that could be accomplished by just a little extra effort on your part without requiring you to quit your day job. For example, the "Top 20 Exotics" list you suggested the NEC tackle could easily be initiated by you. PESWiki is an editable site. Just create the url, and build the page, pulling from the NEC's Top 100 list, and add a section "Promising, but not T100 yet" to include those exotics that are not yet in the T100. That would take about an hour. I participate on your site, how about you participate at PESWiki. You've posted to the site just twice, though the site has been up for four+ years. http://peswiki.com/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Vlad
Sterling, I started ZPEnergy.com as a breakthrough-energy news portal, forum, and published research archive, almost eight years ago when you were still involved in Bible studies. To refresh your memory, you contacted me in late 2003 to join your new proposed PES project. After examining your bio published at your old http://www.greaterthings.com/ site and aware of your dispute with Jerry Decker (of http://www.keelynet.com/), since your business model was radically different than mine (all volunteers, everything for free) I decided to wait and see. Since ZPEnergy was never for making money, I didn't considered you as competition; on the contrary, your success was my success and vice versa (we agreed to link to each other as well). Knowing that you are a prolific "founder" and may indeed help our FE cause, I told you that you can use anything posted on ZPEnergy on your site, since educating the public on new-energy research was our common goal. Are you asking me now that, what I'm doing at ZPEnergy and put up for everybody to use for free (in my limited spare time I should be spending with my family, after work), to duplicate it again on your site, knowing that you're home all day and also have a webmaster on your payroll??? ... I'm looking forward to shut ZPEnergy down when the XSF site is up and running and PESWiki pages can be used for each submitted device description. Yes, I can easily list 20 exotics, but you're missing the point: I have no personal experience with any of those I know about, and there may be many more interesting ones I'm not aware of at all. My request for the NEC (and not me) to put together the Top 20 exotic list was because many of the NEC members claim they have personal knowledge (experienced and even tested) of many such technologies that could be better candidates for the XSF to validate than those I would put on the list.
I recommend the page name: http://peswiki.com/index.php/T100:Top_20_Exotic_Energy_Technologies
OK, then ask each NEC member to send his list and post it on that page, then let's vote to eliminate all but the most promising 20 ... then debate and vote again to rank the Top 20, so we know who to start contacting and propose them to change the world as we know it. If, and only if (and when) we have a credible candidate willing to undergo scientific testing, we can really go full force with the XSF.
You complain that neither the NEC nor the NEM have taken up your banner, yet you've not been around to offer encouragement and to make the wheel squeak, to give it the attention it deserves.
Your hands off approach is as much to blame as anything for the lack of movement on your initiative. An email to one of the NEC discussion lists occasionally would be good to keep the issue before us and spur action on it.
Sorry Sterling but getting action and resolution on tabled proposals, wasn't that your job as the NEC president? I did post occasionally about this subject on the NEC discussion list but was essentially ignored each time. Don't expect me to beg you or anybody else to do the right thing. You are naive if you think all the opposition to something like the XSF wants to do, is all innocent.
As for us keeping some developments off the radar, that is from honoring the wishes of the person who has approached us with the technology. If someone comes to you with a technology seeking help, and asks that you not publish information about it, are you just going to ignore them and publish it anyway? I don't think so. And due to the paranoid mindset that pervades the extreme energy technology field, you can see why many prefer no public mention of their technology.
This I agree, I wouldn't do that. But the XSF deals with already working (not perfectly, as for "market ready") testable prototypes, and the XSF is designed to take care of all the inventor's worries (protect his/her name if (s)he so wishes, and the IP rights, of course). The point is, we need to get these extraordinary claims in the open. Convince the inventors of real working devices of their role and the protection we offer (to remove their paranoia). Those who, despite these assurances, refuse to validate their claims for no valid reason, than we must warn the public about that, and yes, about possible more or less clever scams. Continuing with the secrecy is maintaining the status quo, which serves nobody.
You berate the NEC for not yet validating a working exotic technology despite being in existence for three years. I don't know of anyone organization who has, including you and your network at ZPEnergy.com, nor Stefan over at OverUnity.com, though we all dabble in a lot of very interesting effects that hold out great promise, and we also foster some pretty stories of claims to exotic technology, but which evade validation.
I take that back, there is an organization under NEC Advisor, Chris Patton's guidance, which has apparently validated Timothy Thrapp's technology, but the downside there is that Timothy's terms of engagement are so ridiculous that no reasonable person with money or business expertise will play. So in terms of "validation", Thrapp fails the "politics of science" criteria, making his technology essentially of no practical use.
Well, that is exactly why I proposed the XSF to operate under certain rules. Nobody validated anything because they did not offer to inventors the terms XSF will offer. Read them again please, and if you still don't understand the difference give me a call and I'll see, in my English as the second language, how I can answer all your questions. If Thrapp is such a smart guy, he can not refuse a pile of money for essentially giving nothing and committing to nothing, just proving to the world and to science that he is right.
We've encountered that one a bunch of times, from a bunch of greedy, crazy, or paranoid inventors. They seem to have working stuff, but their personalities drive all reasonable offers of help away. Dennis Lee, Joseph Newman, Mike Brady, and even possibly Carl Tilley all seem to have good technology, but their modus operandi is a show stopper. That is the primary achilles heel of exotic energy -- exotic personalities. If we could find a way around that one, then there would be a bunch of great things coming forward.
You have that "way" before you in the XSF proposal! Let's try it seriously and I'll eat crow if it doesn't work. Next time when you go to any of these people you feel have genuine technologies, take me with you (as I'm not readily available, schedule this in time please).
The MIB account for maybe 10% of why these exotics don't make it to market. Interpersonal conflicts -- people that can't get along, inventors with impossible personalities -- comprise 40% of why these exotics don't make it to market.
This is not an excuse to do nothing, or go back to how to turn biowaste into diesel, Ettridge wind turbines and the like.
I wonder if offering a 1 million+ prize to these types would actually help them move past that primary obstacle. (Let's find out!)
Investors don't invest in just a technology. They look equally carefully at the team. Is the team capable of pulling this off?
Read the XSF proposal again. It has NOTHING to do with investors at this stage! It is done for waking up the science and getting the truth out (and consequently hope) to all people on Earth. This seems to be so hard to understand for those who mostly dream of making tons of money out of this. If any such device is validated by the XSF and the XS-NRG prize awarded with big tam-tam, I can guarantee you that investors will race each other to get inventor's attention. If you're properly positioned, you may win that race.
If we were to give $1 million to Joseph Newman or John Hutchison, how are we to know that $750,000 of it wouldn't go to Vegas, homes, retreats, and women?
The "no strings attached" provision offered to an exotic personality is nearly a guaranteed flush of money down a toilet.
If a person can't work in a team, he is as good as useless, even if he might have the most brilliant technology ever produced. He becomes his own worst enemy, and might as well not have ever come up with the idea in the first place, other than to tease the planet with the idea and possibly inspire more sane people to come up with something similar, but with the ability to also work as a team to bring it to practical application for the world.
Therefore, I recommend that the awarding of any decent prize in this field must have oversight and conditions, released in tranches based on achievement of milestones. Otherwise it's nearly certain to be blown. I don't see you or anyone being able to raise $1 million to give away with no strings attached. That's not a sustainable approach. Sane people are not likely to throw money into a bottomless pit. If I had $1 million to give away to a deserving technology, I wouldn't do it with no strings attached. I would want that money to go toward the development of the technology, and the sustaining of a moderate lifestyle for the key persons developing it; and I would want to be sure that not only did the technology work, but that the team was workable.
Holly smoke!... I lived to read those lines written in the Western world! Listen Sterling, I spent more than half my life in a communist dictatorship. Ceausescu used to "recommend" us not only what we can do with our own meager but hard earned wages, but also what temperature we must have in our bedrooms to stay vigorous, how many calories we must eat to stay healthy, how many kids we must have to meet our duty to the future of the country, etc., to name just a few of his "precious directives", as they were often called. These "directives" were apparently for our own good and protection (and some were probably so) but most of the best people fled the country anyway, some swimming across the Danube river at night ... many were shot or their head smashed in the water ... their bodies often never found. As you probably know, the dictator and his wife ended up executed at the wall after a mock-up trial staged by some of his former yes-men. People love freedom, often more than life. You (we) live in the free world, far from perfect, but for which many sane-honest people are still risking their life to reach, just for the freedom to chose what you do with your property and your life. With your thinking, you're on a dangerous path man. Let people do whatever they want with their money, if they earned/won them honestly. Educate them to know the difference between good and bad choices is all that a free society can do to "constrain" those who do not break the law.
XSF does not divide inventors into "exotic" and "non-exotic" personalities, it just honestly examines their "exotic" claims, if they want to prove their extraordinary technology beyond any reasonable doubt. XSF is after the "naked truth" and not how the inventor got to this point or how (s)he should proceed further. Only the no strings attached will bring them to us. Attaching "the strings" is PESN's (and other for profit org like it) business, since there are billions of $ to be made from bringing such a FE device to the market. I wish you good luck with it ... just don't mingle the XSF scope and modus operandi with PESN's. It is not XSF's business if John Hutchison is a team player or not, gives his money to Paris Hilton for her presidential campaign, or just flash them all down the toilet (there were billions flushed like that through bad decisions, excessive risk taking/gambling by the US government, Wall Street, etc.). If those who donate to the XS-NRG prize want to give a little money just for knowing for sure that ZPE can be tapped for useful power in John's "Crystal converters" and that the "Hutchison Effect" (antigravity) is real, than this is the right thing to do, and it is a small prize to pay (even $10 mil) for the truth that would trigger a significant scientific progress in itself. That's what the XSF is all about.
Vlad
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by sterlingda on Sunday, October 12, 2008 @ 19:53:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://PESWiki.com | Vlad,
Never, ever, at any time have I suggested or even hinted that PES/NEC should walk away from exotics and only spend time with more conventional technologies. Maverick is what I'm about. That is our specialty.
Just because I think having conditions to prize money is a good idea doesn't mean that I'm suggesting that we micromanage every penny spent. Freedom is also what I'm about. It's rooted in my soul. It's what I spend all my time promoting before I got into free energy. But even freedom needs constraint lest it lead to licentiousness. A kite will not fly without a string to anchor it.
When we founded the NEC, whether it would be non-profit or for-profit was left as an open ended question; and I should add that it is still open ended, though leaning against non-profit.
When I suggested that you might participate more in the content at PESWiki, I certainly had no intention whatsoever of suggesting that you should migrate the content at ZPEnergy.com over to PESWiki. I think ZPEnergy serves a great purpose and should always remain a separate venue. But just as I participate at ZPEnergy from time to time, it would be nice if you participated more at PESWiki. That's what I was saying.
Don't berate us because we don't do things exactly as you think we should. Variety is the spice of life.
When you talk about the vision of the XSF prize, you speak very much as if it is your baby. Your choice of words conveys that sense of ownership. I don't fault you there; I just point out that this could be contributing to why others have not stepped forward to take over leadership of that project as you wish. You are perceived as the leader of the idea, and there isn't a perception of room for someone else to step in unless they hold a carbon copy vision in order to take it over. I just don't think it's going to happen unless you do it, or unless you back off in your phraseology.
You need to consider the possibility that the reason no 24/7, portable free energy technology has yet emerged is not because the NEC/PES/SEAS/ZPEnergy and other organizations are inept, but because the world is not ready for it yet. What would the world do with that kind of technology today? Blow each other up using inexpensive drone planes that could travel anywhere on earth, guided by GPS, to drop payload? Or spy on each other using similar technology?
Perhaps a meltdown of the present, corrupt society is needed first, and the emergence of a more enlightened society, before such technology can come forward.
Also, one of the reasons we at PES/NEC also address more conventional renewable energy sources is because there aren't enough exotics to keep us busy. So far, every time we take the time to check one out, it ends up either being bogus, or a scam, or the inventor is impossible to work with. The earth needs solutions, and we'll take what we can get. Our purpose is to identify and facilitate the best options, whatever they be, whether exotic or conventional.
That said, I think it's good to take a number of approaches. It increases the chances that one or more of them will work to bring an exotic technology to the world. I think your XSF idea is a good one, and indeed we at PES/NEC are already doing a lot of what you propose there.
I'm sorry to see you resign from the NEC. (Ref [last paragraph].) It seems to me that you are acting nearly as irrationally as many of the inventors we've encountered, who are high in IQ, but low in EQ -- the 40% of the reason exotic technologies haven't made it to market yet -- the exotic personalities that are so hard to get along with.
Sterling |
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by vlad on Sunday, October 12, 2008 @ 23:49:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | On Oct. 9, 2008, New Energy Congress advisor, Chris Patton wrote: (my answers in Italics. Vlad)
You nailed it Sterling.
Its pretty simple...
Chris, it is not simple at all! I wouldn't have asked you (all of you in NEC/NEM) for help if that was the case.
If Vlad has that much confidence in his idea he should go out and find
a sponsor for his prize. It's not a new idea or even an original idea
since there are "X-prizes" out there already... its a shiny new name
for a well worn concept.
"X-prizes" ?... "Aero-award"?... (for Quantum Green Prize couldn't
find anything on the net) ... they have very little in common with the
XSF/XS-NRG prize concept (oh yes, the name does have a capital X in it
...maybe you find it the same as the XXX-Prize, eh?). Yes, all of them
target FE inventors and their devices, but the way XSF do it (and the
reason for doing it) and the funding system for the XS-NRG prize are
COMPLETELY different!
To say that XSF/XS-NRG prize (as proposed), is not a
new/original idea but "a shiny new name for a well worn concept" is
either misinformation, if you haven't read at all the XSF proposal, or
a deliberate lie if you have (since you don't have to be a genius to
understand it).
Welcome to the real world of packaging and hard work where you have to
solicit people with your "amazing" idea and show them how their
portfolio will benefit from whatever technology drops down the
pipeline. You either have to go Philanthropist or Investor and let me
tell you something...you'll need a pretty extensive/expensive plan for
either one. These don't package themselves.
Except for "hard work" everything else you wrote is IRRELEVANT to
the XSF. Not everybody thinks with their "portfolio" Chris
(unfortunately many do, since that's why the US is where it is). And
you're wrong again scaring people you need "extensive/expensive plans"
for a smart idea done in the right way at the right time ... It's
Internet age, remember?...check The Million Dollar Homepage" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Million_Dollar_Homepage [en.wikipedia.org])
... voila! It will cost you $5K to do the XSF/XS-NRG Prize page
professionally ... you could be famous and make enough money out of it
to retire happy since you'll leave a better world behind...but you'll
pass, and return to ... whatever more important, portfolio fattening
things you're doing.
We may have one overseas called the "Quantum Green Prize" that I've
been pushing for a year. I've taken this idea through the television
studio route and its a tough package to sell without a built in
sponsor. I'll let you know if it hits but I wouldn't get too excited.
As I see the NEC's duty as being accurate information
dissemination I fail to see how it falls onto our collective heads
offer prizes or cash for anything. Vlad you have an fine idea...don't expect anyone but you to carry through on it.
Good Luck!
Thank you. Good luck to you too.
Gentlemen, I'm getting tired of this. I had my "Murphy's War"
and I lost. If the NEC was a "sting operation" from the beginning, and
even if it was hijacked after Sterling came up with the idea, I have to
take my hat off before those who planned and executed this mission.
Trapping a bunch of dedicated people from getting too close to trigger
an energy revolution too soon, by getting them stuck in the perfectly
legitimate, noble (and lucrative, he, he ;-) quest for alternative
energy, AND making it look that THEY want it, was a brilliant strategy.
Those who started like me, and are still like me deep down, must know
they have a formidable vested interest force to fight with, and a deep
trance to wake up from. "The force" would cleverly use weaknesses
present, more or less, in all of us: ego, greed and fear ... and they
continue to win since there are very few of us who are immune to the
spell ;-(.
Since this is Canadian Thanksgiving, I want to thank you all for the
interesting things I've learned from you, and congratulate you for the
good job you're doing for the alternative energy movement. I go back to
my family and my real turkey, cause I'm fed-up with yours.
This is my last "occasional" entry here. Sterling, please remove me from the NEC membership effective immediately.
Vlad
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Change of Priorities (Score: 1)
by Kadamose on Monday, October 13, 2008 @ 07:58:33 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | It's alright, Vlad. We really didn't need the support of these pricks, anyway. Some of us here have decided that the best way to fight these suppressing forces is to not play their game at all. Have you ever heard of The Venus Project? That is what is ultimately going to free humanity from this barbarism, NOT worthless fiat money that is backed by nothing, and certainly not by governments.
If you've never heard of The Venus Project, you should watch Zeitgeist: Addendum right now! You can download it here [www.mininova.org].
In any case, Vlad, it's been a pleasure fighting the fight with you, and it would be a real loss to the cause to have you back down now. You just need to change your priorities and see who the real enemy is, which is the money system that everyone worships. Watch that film I just posted, and you will have all the answers that you seek - in all honesty, the solution presented in the film is the only way to bring this pathetic, unfair system down forever.
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Re: XSF and the XS-NRG Prize (Executive Summary) (Score: 1)
by Mar1 on Monday, October 13, 2008 @ 15:11:44 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Vald,
your idea is great and I hope it truly does succeed, ignore all though who don't wish you well and just go for it. Quoting Tesla, “Throughout
space there is energy, is this energy static or kinetic? If static our hopes
are in vain: if kinetic and this we know it is for certain, then it is a mere
question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very
wheelwork of nature.” There’s nothing like a little word from the man to perk
up one’s positive energy, good look Vald. |
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Does the Goverment really want new cheep energy (Score: 1)
by vlad on Thursday, October 23, 2008 @ 22:48:24 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://www.zpenergy.com | Sent by NAG: To: Vald for what it worth.
You energy program idea is great and needs to be done but the results will be the following:
For those of you that think that the government wants a new energy source ! You would be VERY WRONG…! They only want a new source if it uses OIL COAL or GAS.
If its Nuclear or ZPEnergy or Fusion…. You are out in left field. There is no money for future energy in these fields and they are off limits to the normal person or corporations on the street.
You are going to ask why…. Is this so? Well it goes back to economics … global economics… you just saw what a 6% drop in house prices and what it did the stock market.
Just think what a 50% reduction in energy prices would do to the world economics.
Don’t get me wrong the government wants the technology; they just don’t want to pay for it or pay you for it.
To give you an idea how the government does this … tie up game. You will submit a new patent they will look at it and woo and aww over it and then it gets lost of postponed in the patent office. The CIA and other government agencies start getting their hand into it and before you know you are running around in circles thinking you are making headway only to find out at a later date … the government has had you all tied up all along through its vast inelegance agencies.
If you think I am kidding I am not!
The story gets better… Lets say you find a big investor that has the money! Wow you just added some points to the he / she ingenious list on the governments side and what are we going to do about them now.
So at that point the government goes to the investor or who’s providing the money and says, oh yes you can’t have any foreign investor in the company or people that can’t get security clearances can’t be investors.
And then it hits you only the government can build this device and they are calling the shots! If you don’t like it that’s just tough, you’re going to have to take what they give you.
All you read and more has happened to Executive Engineering’s Nuclear Accelerated Generator (Atomic Battery).
ZPEnergy is a great web site but take my word on this the goverment controls all energy and putting up a prize my sound good but the result if acheaved will by like mine.
Thanks
David Weber / President
P.S. Too smart for my own good!
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Re: Does the Goverment really want new cheep energy (Score: 1)
by RBM on Saturday, October 25, 2008 @ 11:04:19 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | @Dave
Similar to my comment in the Black Light thread.
Yes, this is protection of the status quo, by vested interests.
If the interests decide to invest in alt energy, it will be corrupted such that the middlemen wil make out like bandits and the average Joe's life will remain under the thumbs of the monied interests.
For background see IMF, World Bank and Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
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Re: Does the Goverment really want new cheep energy (Score: 1)
by Luciferius on Saturday, October 25, 2008 @ 22:01:58 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Greetings and salutations....
I agree, and this applies for here in Canada as well.
It goes without saying, based on the blood, death and horror done here to make a reason to go there, by people in power who support the status quo and sit at tables with others of the same specie, for coin...
Bottom line.....they lose.
As long as there is internet, someone will find a way to make each home an island, self-sufficient, and pass that info to friends, families and neighbors.
Never give up....the answers are out there somewhere and if I find it before you, I shall post it here...:)
Friend in arms,
Luciferius
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Re: Does the Goverment really want new cheep energy (Score: 1)
by noblefuse on Thursday, November 20, 2008 @ 18:35:04 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | you are completely backwards - cheap energy for the world will propel us to infinity-look what cheap energy did for america and the west- the economic collapse is from high energy prices-
it is people like you that are opporsite to rea;lity and mislead everyone-
i must endure this time during crisis as all the 100,000 garage scientists friedman and brokow spoke about -
we are in for a deep depression before you listen to a man of god-let the lessons continue
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Re: Is the XSF Really necessary? (Score: 1)
by Freedomfuel on Monday, December 15, 2008 @ 13:10:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I understand why Vlad feels that efforts to find radical solutions to the impending environmental and fuel depletion crisis are imperative, but private initiatives like XSF and the Orion Project are not necessary. Engineers have been toiling away for decades in military research institutes to perfect free energy and other exotic energy technologies. They started with crude magnet motors in the 1940s and have progressed to the point where they have been able to produce the cool running MHD generator using heavy water as a fuel that Richard Boylan has disclosed at his website. Anything you can think of they have done already and they can do it better than you. They have also done things that civillian researchers have not thought of, and which would amaze you. This is confirmed by UFO abductees who have described the interior of UFOs as Alladins caves of extraordinary technology. You should also take into account that these are the only people qualified to resolve the safety issues around things like magnet motors.
They have not spent billions developing UFO technology in order to keep it hidden away for ever. There are complex and difficult issues around free energy that have prevented it from being released to the public till now. In general it is the case that this technology has been kept secret to protect the safety of the public rather than special interests as most people believe. The US government officials who have decided to maintain the secrecy have done so after balancing the possible risks and rewards using information not available to the public. They understand that the release of free energy technology to the public could resolve China's acute air pollution problem caused by the burning of fossil fuels. Although it may seem heartless to deny to the Chinese people something that could prevent 350,000 people dying every year from air pollution related diseases they have to take into account the fact that free energy is as scary and dangerous as nuclear energy, it can easily be turned into a weapon and it is difficult to manage. Unleashing something like this into the world is not a decision to be taken lightly. If it is introduced before the world is ready for it may have the effect of opening a Pandora’s box. As long as governments have a choice they will naturally choose the less risky alternative. The Chinese, for instance, have the option of cleaning up their emissions and going nuclear at the expense of paying more for their electricity. In my opinion the world is not facing a crisis that could justify the risk of giving the public something powerful enough to replace all fossil and nuclear fuels. There are, however, free energy technologies in government labs that do not need to be classified and which could be released to the public, but they may not have much cost advantage over conventional renewables. You may regard these as transitional technologies whose introduction would not be so disruptive.
Ultimately, something with so much potential to do both harm and good requires universal peace before it can be introduced. In the mean time the strategy appears to be using energy conservation and renewables to buy time untill Islamic militancy burns itself out. Peace will not come to Africal and the middle east untill China becomes the sole superpower, but in the meantime there are going to be major upheavals in the world as the US empire falls. The concern within the US government intelligence agencies seems to be that free energy should not be introduced during this crisis period as it would only make things worse.
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Re: Is the XSF Really necessary? (Score: 1)
by jibbguy on Monday, March 23, 2009 @ 10:58:05 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I would respectfully disagree with the previous comment. Projects like XSF are needed: Not to only to "re-discover" what we here know is already invented and shelved or kept secret, but to let the world know they exist in the first place.
As long as they can keep making trillions in easy profits without any hard questions being asked; why should they stop? It doesn't need a huge conspiracy theory to explain, either: This is just, sadly, human nature.
The way to create change is to make them uncomfortable enough, that change is more comfortable. The way to do this is to spread the word to as many people as possible, to GET those hard questions asked. And the way to best do that is to point to undeniable, multiple, and "solid" examples of these technologies working. The XSF project is one such means, and i applaud Vlad for suggesting and working for it!
Regarding their reasons for keeping this stuff secret: I am afraid that spinning magnetic motors as a danger to national security is a gonna be a hard road ;) The MRI in our local hospitals are more dangerous. Hydroxy is another one that will be hard to convince those who understand it as being a security danger. LENR is a third. These are "dangers" all right: To the continued wealth and power of the energy cartels.
We cannot allow our Planet to be slowly destroyed, out of unreasonable fear of being destroyed. Life is risk, and there are enough technologies already out there that are dangerous. Using the fear of national security sounds like an excuse to go on making trillions at the expense of the poor and middle class... As a means of maintaining control of society through "scarcity", and as a continued means of extracting a hidden tax from energy costs greater than all "legitimate" taxes put together on us... A tax the politicians never complain about; yet is the most regressive and expensive of all. |
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