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GWE announces new technology for the auto industry
Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 @ 23:20:15 UTC by vlad
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rastahal writes: I just found this on the GWE website and this was also my question to GWE when Vlad asked us to submit questions....check it out!
Genesis World Energy Introduces Revolutionary Automotive Hydrogen Fuel Generation Device
Genesis HICEF™ Technology leapfrogs current fuel cell-based transportation development by enabling the use of hydrogen in internal combustion engines
Boise, ID - April 21, 2003 - Genesis World Energy, the company behind a revolutionary energy generation technology introduced in December 2002, has announced an automotive and transportation application that creates an on-demand source of hydrogen fuel for internal combustion engines. The Genesis HICEF (Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine Fuel) Technology represents a stunning breakthrough in hydrogen-based automotive power systems through its on-board, on-demand generation of hydrogen gas derived from water — circumventing the need for either externally supplied sources of hydrogen or hydrogen generation based on chemicals or fossil fuel derivatives.
The Genesis HICEF Technology represents a dramatic departure from current hydrogen-based fuel cell research, which has focused primarily on the generation of power for electric vehicles. Rather than abandoning the internal combustion engine and the decades of progress made in its improvement, the Genesis technology will enable automobile makers to design power systems that run off hydrogen gas rather than fossil fuels - thus eliminating a major source of pollution.
For a 60-day period effective May 1- June 30, 2003, World Energy Management, the licensing arm of Genesis World Energy, will make its HICEF Technology available to companies who are interested in applying it to automobile, trucking, mass transit, aircraft, locomotive and marine engines. The HICEF device can be easily incorporated into existing internal combustion engines with relatively few modifications made to the vehicle, and is similar in approach to today's conversion of vehicles from gasoline to natural gas or propane — without the need for high-pressure storage of flammable gases.
On Demand Hydrogen Fuel
Although manufacturers have demonstrated both internal combustion engine and fuel cell-powered automobiles using hydrogen, the technologies upon which they have been based have not been commercially viable. The Genesis HICEF Technology overcomes a critical barrier that has inhibited the use of hydrogen as an internal combustion engine fuel source: the cost-effective creation and delivery of hydrogen gas. Relying on nothing more than a source of purified water, the Genesis HICEF Technology makes it possible to design internal combustion-powered vehicles that burn hydrogen gas produced on board the vehicle, freeing it from the need for externally generated sources of hydrogen fuel.
The Genesis gCell Technology
The Genesis HICEF is based on a revolutionary technology recently introduced by the Genesis Project in the form of the Edison Device - a residential and commercial energy generation unit that creates gas and electrical power through the separation of hydrogen and oxygen molecules contained in any source of water. At the core of this technology are the Genesis gCells, which break water down into its basic molecular structure through a series of electro-chemical processes, yielding ultra-pure hydrogen and oxygen gases. The reactant chemistry in the Genesis HICEF Technology is different from that of the Edison Device in that the gCells do not require many of the support processes needed in the Edison technology. The water supplying the gCells can be stored in special tanks that replace the ones currently used for gasoline in conventional fossil-fuel vehicles.
Economic and Environmental Impact
Since the water used by the gCells must be purified, consumers will have the choice of obtaining purified water from conventional fueling stations for an estimated $.20 to $.30 per gallon, or relying on filters in the Genesis HICEF unit that purify the water from sources such as a garden hose. Obtaining already purified water from fueling stations will extend the life of the filters in the HICEF unit, as well as provide a more profitable income source to gas station owners.
Converting diesel engines will require a more involved process than gasoline engines; however the cost will be relatively the same as the conversion to natural gas. The trucking industry and mass transit will benefit greatly from the reduction in fuel costs. Of even greater significance are the potential benefits to our environment: the Genesis HICEF Technology represents the cleanest possible alternative fuel source, producing essentially zero tailpipe emissions.
Readily Available Technology
Manufacturers and aftermarket companies who are interested in the conversion of conventional internal combustion vehicles from fossil fuels or natural gas energy sources may express their interest in utilizing the Genesis HICEF Technology through a form available on the World Energy Management website. This form will be available through June 30, 2003 at :
www.worldenergymanagement.com.
For further information regarding the Genesis Project, the Edison Device, and World Energy Management, please visit
http://www.genesisworldenergy.com
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Re: Sounds good but what about performance (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 15:29:13 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | So they found a way to migrate their technology to the automotive sector which i think everyone was expecting with this announcement. I dont see how they would expect existing gas stations to profit from selling water. plus how many people do they expect to buy water when they could just as easily use the garden hose. OK so the filters will degrade much more quickly but compare the purchasing of water from a "water station" for X amount of years untill the filters degrade and the price of replacing the water filters. I think replacing the filters more often would be cheaper. But there are other factors. how many miles can you travel on 15 gallons of water, what would the new maintenance schedule and expenses be like for an engine running on hydrogen. I would expect a new Q&A session to begin on GWE's website based on this new announcement. |
Re: Sounds good but what about performance (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 12:46:04 UTC | I think it will be interesting to see if any big name manufacturers will contact GWE and express interest in the HICEF Technology.
As far as the gas stations profitting from the sell of water - there would be less regulations imposed on the gas station owners, fines, improvements to their facilites, etc. And you would have to have filling stations in the event you take a long distance trip.
I also hope that a new Q&A gets posted to the site to answer questions |
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Re: Sounds good but what about performance (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 01:54:44 UTC | I just read the news release.
I am an owner of many gas station. I haven't slept, ever since I read about HICEF. I also want to get involved in the Edison Device.
CONGRATULATION TO GWE.
Thank you. You guy's are life savers |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 16:02:18 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I found this under the Edison device section of the web site
"The Genesis Project has developed two market-ready models of the Edison Device: a residential version and a commercial version. The residential model is capable of producing up to 170 kilowatt hours electricity and a minimum of 30 cubic feet of customer usable hydrogen gas per day (a typical home uses less than 100 kilowatt hours of electricity and 5 cubic feet of gas), and the commercial model can generate up to 720 kilowatt hours of electricity and a minimum of 100 cubic feet of customer usable hydrogen gas per day. For heavier commercial requirements, multiple Edison Devices can be linked together." |
170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 17:46:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | The eCells are (approx) 0.6 watt fuel cells. How are two of them supposed to make any more than 30 kwh in one day? I do wonder why they changed the units. Just for contrast, that same paragraph used to be in the "Market Ready" paragraph of the Technology section.
The Genesis Project has developed two market ready models of the Edison Device: a residential version and a commercial version. The residential model is capable of producing up to 30 total kilowatts of combined gas and electrical power per day (a typical home uses between five to six kilowatts), and the commercial model can generate up to 100 total kilowatts of energy. For heavier commercial requirements, multiple Edison Devices can be linked together.
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Re: 170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 18:12:07 UTC | | When are you going to learn to read? |
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170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 18:48:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Whats the question? Is arithmetic now getting difficult? GWE states the eCell produces 1000 amps at 0.5 volts. I think they mean 0.6 volts rather than 0.5, and it's a reasonable figure for fuel cell performance, so I round up. Just multiply 1000 amps X 0.6 volts X 2 eCells = 1.2 kw.
If you prefer, multiply by 0.5 volts and see if it makes it any easier to get 170 kwh/day. All this "information" is on their site. Just read it with your thinking cap on.
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Re: 170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 19:17:18 UTC | | Try reading the numbers and their relationships again. It doesn't say anything about 1000 amps at .5 volts. It says each eCell produces .5 volts, but there are several sells in a stack. Anyone that reads this site and others knows you are totally dishonest in your statements about this company. I haven't found a statement you've made yet anywhere on the web that has any basis in fact. Get a life and quit wasting everybody's time with your BS opinions you state as fact. |
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Re: 170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 19:18:32 UTC | | AMEN!!! |
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Re: 170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 19:20:10 UTC | | That pickle guy must be mentally imbalanced. |
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anonymous coward (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 21:02:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Everyony knows by now that there is only one of you since your incompetence shines through in every post. Since you think you know how to read their page, you tell us, how much power does it produce? 30 kw/day? 30kwh/day? 170 kwh/day? 6kw/day? 6kw? |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 21:38:10 UTC | | I wish I could tke credit for exposing your dishonesty all by myself, but sorry. It looks like there are quite a few people on this site that see you for what you are. Oh, I see, in your view anyone that can read what is actually written on the GWE site is a coward when they point out that that the puke you are spewing is untrue. If that's the case, how come you always try to BS you way out of things when anyone asks you to prove what you say? You're Busted Loser! |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 23:23:46 UTC | Yep! He's busted. The GWE device uses multiple cells. However, I still welcome him to this board and to talk with us. Lets not sink to the level of debunkers who try to scare people off.
I just ask him to give GWE a chance to substantiate their claims. Lets not rush to judgement one way or the other. |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 03:37:46 UTC | | Thanks for the comment. He knows he is not being truthful. There's a difference between healthy debate and someone that consistently intentionally makes up totally false statements to skew the debate. Perhaps the folks that like sit at the computer and espouse their opinions about what other people try to do should learn something from GWE, regardless of whether GWE is real or not. Stop hiding behind the computer, get off their butts and get out and develop something world changing themselves, their way. That's what I'm going to do. But first I'm going to contact GWE and offer to volunteer my time to help them any way I can. Heck, I’d pay them for the chance to get involved. |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 09:04:31 UTC | >But first I'm going to contact GWE and offer to >volunteer my time to help them any way I can
good luck finding invisible people my friend |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 10:56:42 UTC | | I expressed my interest through the website form and received a personalized email response within a few hours and a phone call from a real live human resources person a few minutes ago. They don't accept volunteers, but they have encouraged me to apply for a job. Not bad for invisible people. |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 10:59:06 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | What kind of positions did they say they had open? i might be interested :) |
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Re: You're the coward (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 11:14:45 UTC | | They said they have lots of openings they are filling all over the country and wanted to know what types of things interested and excited me. They said they will be posting job openings on the website soon, but they are allowing me to submit my resume now. |
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Re: Start your engines (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 11:58:50 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I guess those openings have to do with GWE getting ready to start up the manufacturing sites to build the key components to provide to licensees. I wonder where those locations are. |
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Re: Start your engines (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 @ 14:52:16 UTC | | I bet those positions are creating websites and flyers to advertise their BS and sucker in investors. |
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Re: Start your engines (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 @ 16:22:22 UTC | | Again, whose money have they taken in the way of investments or otherwise? I haven't heard or seen one comment by anyone who is unhappy or is claiming that they have been suckered or scammed! Only those who continue to spew the kind of puke you do! |
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Re: Start your engines (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 @ 10:22:44 UTC | | I would have to agree...we hear Chipotle complaining but has anyone else? |
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Re: Start your engines (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, May 30, 2003 @ 16:44:21 UTC | I think chipotle is getting paid to spew all his negative comments. He does it to anybody that comes out with something positive.
AJ |
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Re: that's why it's called a confidence scam (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, June 01, 2003 @ 00:23:01 UTC | "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty."
-George Bernard Shaw
Robert M |
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Re: 170 kwh/day, 1.2 kw at a time (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 09:23:01 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | From the pictures of the device I counted a total of 5 eCell stacks each containing "Multiple" eCells. I guess we cannot get an exact number of how many ecells are in each stack so any number number the posters come up with is a shot in the dark guess. But i still say that 170 Kwh a day should be broken down by dividing it by 24 hours. whcih gives you about 7kwh per hour. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 08:24:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Why couldn't it be 170 Kw a day divided by 24 hours, this would give you an average of 7Kw per hour.
Im not an electrician and dont claim to know practically anything about measuring power but if the statement was "a day" then why not just device that number across 24 hours? |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 11:08:54 UTC | | I was looking at my electrical and gas bills from the utility companys and it is billed in kWh and cubic feet of gas used a month. The cubic feet of gas is converted to therms on the bill for pricing purposes. That made it easy based on what GWE has stated on their website. For the electricity I simply took the kWh used and divided it by the number of days in the billing period and it turns out that I used an average of 88 kWh a day. When I divided the total cubic feet of gas I was billed for and divided it also by the number of days in the billing period, my use came to an average of 4.6 cubic feet a day (in winter). Looking at it that way makes it easy to make sense of the GWE's stated about the 170 kWh a day output and how it relates to what I need. Pretty cool. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 11:38:09 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | So if you break that 88 kWh down further across a 24 hour period you would have an average of 3.6 kw pumping in from the utility wire an hour. Now if you take GWE's statement of 170 Kwh a day and divide that across a 24 hour period you get about 7kw an hour. which should be more then enough for the average home.
So there would need to be (based on the 1000amps x 0.6 volts x ? amount of eCells) at least 12 eCellsto reach 7kWh. There are 5 eCell banks but there is no telling how many eCells are in each bank.
I think this makes sense. Or am i completely off on my math on breaking down the total used per day. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 14:15:47 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | someonemade me realize something, Is that bill a residential or commercial utility bill? 88kwh a day is alot of power to consume a day. mulltiply that by a 28 day billing cycle and you are at nearly 2.5 MWh. I will have to check my bill when I get home to see how much I use. I might be around 500 KWh for the month which breaks down to just below 18 KWh a day and average of about 0.74 Kwh an hour. If you are using 88Kwh a day then you desperatly need a free energy device :) |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 14:31:24 UTC | I live in Norway, and during the winter we use 3-5kw on the average in a normal house.
Hot water and heating the house and worhing and drying the clodes take most of this.
So about 100kWh a day might be right. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 14:48:49 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Wow, and they say america is the biggest energy consumer!!! I don't think you can find many houses in america using 88 to 100 Kwh a day unless your Bill Gates. with a 20,000 square foot home. The guys garage is bigger then my house and my two neighbors houses put together. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by Bjoern on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 15:39:13 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I agree to our Norwegian friend, thus living in Sweden we happen to use between 25-35 MWh per year before we installed a heatpump. Now we have around 18 MWh/year. At the coldest period we use 5-7 kW to keep the temp indoors.
At last there is real vocabular in the debate. Not the 30 kW/day that were previous.
A real working GWE device that could take care of our heating and would and could stay for safely 10 years would be worth about some 10000$-20000$ in our area. |
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Re: GWE changes wording on Edison device to Kilowatt hours (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 15:59:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Wow, you guys are energy hogs...just kidding. Here is the US or California, I seen averages reach as high as 1.2MWh for a 30 day period in the summer season while other areas only reach 270 Kwh for the same period. Winters are fairly mild in Ca. depending on where you are so there isn't much of a spike like there is in the Summer. Even if the higher usage area homes were all electric I still cant see it hitting 2MWh for thirty days. How would those who live in desolate dry areas be able to use such a device. Its hard for them to find drinking water never mind water to use in the Edison device. |
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GWE numerolgy (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 21:52:07 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | It seems that Genesis World Energy is recycling the same few numbers and changing what they are supposed to stand for. Consider the table below.
oldtech: shows how that number was used in the original technology tab
pressrel: how the Newsroom, original press release uses number
newpag: how new "Edison Device" description uses number
Number 5
oldtech: Claimed average household natural gas usage, in cu ft / day
pressrel: nothing
newpage: Same as oldtech
Number 6
oldtech: Claimed average home power usage in kw per day
pressrel: Claimed average home energy usage in kw per day
newpag: Hidden. Has morphed to 7.2.
Number 30
oldtech: Total power of consumer Edison, in kw per day
pressrel: Total energy of consumer Edison, in kw per day
newpag: See 720. Also, H2 output of consumer Edison, in cubic feet / day
Number 100
oldtech: Commercial Edison's enbergy production in kw / day
pressrel: Same
newpag: Claimed cap for a typical home's averag electricity usage, in khw/day
.............Also Commercial Edison's H2 output in cu ft /day
Number 170 newpage only: Consumer Edison's energy output, in kwh/day
Number 720 newpage only: Commercial edison's energy output, in kwh (?per day?) 24X30
Enjoy the table, mix and match the numbers and have fun. Try to find find how the 6 kw of power per day transformed into 170 kwh of energy per day. Hint, why does the eCell have only 0.5 volts under load, isn't that substandard? What's standard? What mistake did they make to get to 0.5?
For the original technology page, see the snapshot saved at blake.montclair.edu/~kowalskil/cf/voodoo.pdf.
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Re: Get A Life Chipotle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 13:58:48 UTC | | But learn to read first. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 18:28:20 UTC | | This is a scam people. |
Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 21:41:48 UTC | | Interesting concept. Sacmming people and companies by not asking for money and creating a revenue model dependent on mass volume sales of their products worldwide. I wish I had thought of that scam. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 16:16:41 UTC | | I also understand that this effort was being lead by and mostly comprised of women.....that I find amazing. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 16:16:59 UTC | | I also understand that this effort was being lead by and mostly comprised of women.....that I find amazing. |
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Re: Women (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 16:50:31 UTC | | I have it from a very good source that your statement is true. The vast majority of the GWE team members are women. |
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Re: Women (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 16:59:08 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | You have a GWE source? Mostly women, I know that the President of WEM is Nejhla Shaw. I also know (not personally) Diana Echeverria but she works for Guy Rome & associates. What other women are there?
Is there other information you can share with us that is safe to release in terms of not violating any NDA's? |
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Re: Women (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 17:06:18 UTC | | If you go to the GRA Website - both owners are women.... |
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Re: Women & More (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 18:09:33 UTC | The NDA's (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are very strict and unilateral, so it's difficult to say much without approval and being subject to severe legal penalties. My source is one of the few persons within GWE that can grant permission person to discuss any matter related to the project. They said I could pass along the following points to ZP Energy readers:
1: Nearly every key role within the group is managed and handled by women. In fact, there are very few men in the group at all. The project organizers feel that played a key role in meeting the project's objectives.
2. The wording on their website is very carefully chosen and is true and accurate. Anything that is placed on the website goes through several stages of construction and approval. As a result, very little that is written by the technology team ever makes it to the web site in anything like its original state. Wording that is vague is intended to be that way for reasons that are important to the project. You will find that the vague statements will be replaced over time with detail.
3. All of the energy devices based on the technology that were planned have already been developed and will be released over time in accordance with GWE's plan. I think it's safe to say that very few energy markets will be left untouched by the technology.
4. Development and preproduction versions of Edison Device have been operating essentially flawlessly for over a year. The team feels that consumers will be very pleased.
5. The team has experienced organized opposition in taking the technology to market, although that was expected and anticipated. Many of those efforts to try and stop the technology from going forward violate a range of civil and criminal laws and some of the perpetrators post false information about the project on this website. The team feels it has made good choices in developing and implementing its strategies and is very pleased with the results. World response has been overwhelming positive.
I hope this helps. I was allowed to share this information by the team in gratitude for the positive and supportive comments that have been made about the project by ZP Energy and its readers. This may be the only time information on the project is permitted to be released outside of the GWE website.
CK
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You forgot the Free Republic (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 19:59:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Guy Rome or Bosscomm posted once on the Free Republic. Post 110. A generally well informed and reasoned discussion.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/news/801618/posts?q=1&&page=101
The "correct and accurate" is pretty wild.
What organized oposition is there? A couple of teachers and a few engineers writing web pages is organized resistance? What criminal and civil laws (of the USA) are violated? If you don't like it when people say mean things about you, you picked the wrong game.
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Re: You forgot the Free Republic (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 21:13:41 UTC | I'm a law student and it is my belief that it is you who is in the wrong game. If you are a teacher I am glad you're not mine. If you are an engineers you must be unemployed.
He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool shun him. You sir are the fool. |
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Re: You forgot the Free Republic (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 05:09:24 UTC | | Exactly! |
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Re: What Are Your True Motives Pickle? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 06:03:50 UTC | An Open Letter to Pickle and His Partners in Crime:
Instead of talking about what anyone else has done to try to stop the Genesis folk’s pickle, let’s talk about you for a minute. Unfortunately, you will stop at nothing to try to interfere and destroy GWE. Why don’t we start by talking about your attempts to blackmail (that's factually not an over statement) people you thought were or may be involved in the GWE project. You clearly spelled out your motives in writing during these failed blackmail attempts. I've seen them, I know they exist.
As an example pickle, you contacted Guy Rome, GWE's public relations firm and told them that if they didn't drop GWE as a client and renounce the technology, you would publish information you knew to be false all over the Internet with the express malicious intent of destroying GR's business and reputation. You also told GR that unless they complied with you, you would contact each of GR's clients and tell them that GR was knowingly participating in a stock fraud scheme, which you knew was untrue. Ask the thoughtful law student that posted another response to what you have written above which of your actions violates civil laws and which violates criminal laws. I've been told that the Genesis folks have been made aware of several similar efforts on your part. I thought it was time everyone knew what you have been up to. Maybe others have too much class say anything, but I don't suffer from that limitation.
I think we should ask GR and the others you've attempted to do this to, to post your correspondence to them related to these matters on the Internet. What does everyone else think?
Hey, I'll start it off by volunteering to pay the costs associated with having a website created and hosted dedicated bring these things out and exposing you.
Sincerely,
A Concerned GWE Supporter
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Guy Rome (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 11:16:48 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Yes, I did tell Guy Rome that I would let other people know what they are doing with GWE,claiming that they are not soliciting investors, when they know full well that someone is soliciting investment on their behalf. That's not a "threat", and it's not against the law. It turns out that no such campaign is needed, a google search for "guy rome" turns up the GWE story. When this blows up, the egg will stick to them and there will be no taking it off. So much for brand equity Terri.
Sure post my letters Terri. If you've lost them I'll mail you copies. |
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Re: Guy Rome (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 11:43:05 UTC | | Just a suggestion, you should retain a criminal and civil attorney and solicit their advice on this. Since you've just confirmed that what they say is true, you may have some serious legal problems that you may want to try to get settled. The same goes for any operators of web sites you've used to conduct your activities. |
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Re: Guy Rome (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 12:01:49 UTC | | Good Luck |
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Re: Guy Rome (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 13:02:49 UTC | Chipotle or who ever you are, you are extremely annoying.
Gwe has developed a revolutionary technology. Instead of writing about
This amazing technology and what a wonderful gift this is for humankind
You have done everything to undermine their effort.
I have always enjoyed reading ZP’s Forum it has maintained an upscale clientele until you came along. You do not contribute anything.
Men and Women let us talk about what is important. Our earth, environment, jobs,
A better way of life and everything that follows, instead of reading negative garbage
I personally want to congratulate every one at GWE for this technology.
Please what ever you do, do not let negative or sick people stop you.
An overjoyed person |
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Re: Guy Rome (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 14:12:02 UTC | AMEN to the above! Let's focus our attention on the gift and what it can potentially do for mankind.
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Re: question about number two (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 22:17:36 UTC | Thanks for sharing that information, I do have a few questions,
Since the information about the output of the edison device was updated from 30 Kw a day to 170 Kwh a day can you explain the change in the number? This is a particular item that has been a hot debate on this forum and having an official response can certainly put it to rest.
Also, according to GWE's project plan when do you or them forsee a licensed edison device reaching the market?
Thanks again for your response.
Oh, this is RedPill, sorry for logging in anonymously but i cant find my post it note with my password and my e-mail is down temporarily so I can't pull up the e-mail with my password. If I managed the e-mail server it would be UP!! right now. |
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Re: question about number two and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 03:52:21 UTC | Sorry for the typos in my previous post. I have big clumsy hands and this is the first time I've ever participated in an online discussion. I think I forgot to preview what I had typed before sending it.
The words "per day" originally posted on the GWE web site were the result of an editing error by team members. Specific energy outputs were very close to being released to the public on December 5th and then were pulled at the last minute. When I say last minute, I mean literally as the press conference was starting and the web site was going live. The team chose to ignore the typo until the final standardized device configurations were made and detailed output numbers could be released. The final suggested configurations were selected a few days ago and the information on the web site was updated. Look for a lot of new details I think people may find interesting to be released on the GWE website in the days, weeks and months to come.
Based on what I know, there should be some systems available from licensees in 2003, but they probably won't be widely available until 2004. FYI: Currently, the plan is that the first twelve production Edison Devices will be auctioned off to the public well in advance of any devices being available from licensees. All proceeds from these auctioned devices will go to charity. The devices being auctioned will be unique because they will probably be the only Edison Devices entirely built by GWE and delivered to the public.
One thing that might be helpful in understanding the team and their choices is that they feel there are only two things that really matter about what they’ve done. Creating the technology and making it widely available to consumers as quickly as possible. To the team, pubic debate means nothing when the product and technology being debated is not available on the market for consumers to benefit from.
For those of you that like spend your time debating the possibility of an energy revolution, some food for thought: Creating a viable, practical, low cost hydrogen based energy economy from water without requiring consumers to change the way they use energy has been a realistic option for over 30 years. Every piece of the technology needed to accomplish that already existed in one form or another. All that needed to be done was for someone to get in and sort it all out, refine it into a cohesive package and make it consumer friendly. Scientific breakthroughs and over unity were not needed to make the hydrogen economy viable. The creation of the Genesis Technology just made it possible for the conversion to the hydrogen economy to take place very quickly, with much less effort and at a much lower cost to consumers. Like the team said, it was right there in front of us all along.
CK
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Re: question about number two and more (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 09:21:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Thanks for the response CK,
This is exciting news, does GWE plan on posting a Q&A section on the newest announced technology?
Will there be some kind of notification going out informing everyone where the auctions will take place? Like eBay or something. I think they can have a potential to pull in some serious bidding wars. Have the charities been identified that GWE plans on donating to?
Again, thanks for your time and information clearing up some of the grey areas CK.
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Re: Women & More (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 13:04:41 UTC | Re: Guy Rome (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24 @ 13:02:49 EDT
Chipotle or who ever you are, you are extremely annoying.
Gwe has developed a revolutionary technology. Instead of writing about
This amazing technology and what a wonderful gift this is for humankind
You have done everything to undermine their effort.
I have always enjoyed reading ZP’s Forum it has maintained an upscale clientele until you came along. You do not contribute anything.
Men and Women let us talk about what is important. Our earth, environment, jobs,
A better way of life and everything that follows, instead of reading negative garbage
I personally want to congratulate every one at GWE for this technology.
Please what ever you do, do not let negative or sick people stop you.
An overjoyed person
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Re: Women & More (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 14:23:39 UTC | Hello overjoyed,
I second that. Congratulations to GWE.
Thank you
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 @ 23:21:44 UTC | Hey,
I am here too! And I also feel that your bashing of GWE is ridiculous.
Granted, anything that could truly change the world is usually greeted with anger, rage, and hate. So what you do is not unusual.
Are we totally certain that GWE is totally legit? Nope. But there is also no reason to believe otherwise at this moment.
Yes, some of their website talk is vague. But have we been reading formal papers on the opperation of this device? NOPE! We are simply reading PR probably written by non scientists!
Give GWE a break, for now. Lets see when the first of these devices start to be released.
I don't know how we have came as far as we have with all the debunking and naysaying...
Anonymous and proud of it!
(Being Anonymous does not make you a coward. It is a right.) |
Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 03:47:52 UTC | | Amen!!! |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 1)
by Rastahal on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 12:20:29 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://truthbells.com | Well, well....considering this is my first post to the ZPEnergy site, I sure did get people talking! ;-)
Personally, I think 2003 could be the year some of these new energy sources finally break into the consciousness of the general public, and GWE just may be the first. Alas, just like the days of the Wright Bros, I think there will still be folks saying it can't be done...after it already has!
Nothing is harder to open than a closed mind. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 22:27:16 UTC | | Ok Rastahal, you are not allowed to post anymore. This thread is getting out of control!!! Just kidding. It seems like when ever something is posted from GWE it turns into a long discussion...but its a good thing. |
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GWE is a tad scary! Wanting to take over the world? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 12:59:28 UTC | In one way the GWE company and Edison devices is facinating, thrilling, and exciting. In another way, it is scary. I will tell you why:
Because of their politically based statements.
Of course they are free as a private company to have political opinions. But have you read all the qualifications a country must have to utilize their technology? Have you read about how their device will self destruct (well, stop working) if you simply move it out of a certain area? Have you read their list of requirements for any country that wishes to use this device?
In my opinion, this is the only SCARY thing about GWE. It seems that they want to control the world and use their technology as a political tool. Technology should help the world and obviously a wonderful technology that produces cheap energy could make the world a more peaceful place. But you can not use YOUR will to FORCE your political, ethical, or other beliefs on others.
That is the main thing I am worried about. Maybe I am wrong about them, and maybe their requirements are mainly for show. I hope so, because otherwise their technology is indeed scary...
If I had to die and starve to death I would not use their generators unless I could disable the self destruct device (even though I hardly ever leave my small town in the USA) and that every single nation in the world good and bad had access to this technology.
This technology belongs to all humanity and GWE should sell it that way.
William
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Re: Intentions are good (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 15:12:00 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I think there intentions may be good but I agree that you shouldn't make a specific country's citizens suffer because of a few bad politicians or businessmen/women. I also think that they meant well with the moving of the device from one country to another to stop countries seeking cheap labor outside their own and exporting it. Specifically in the US where manufacturing jobs have declined significantly. I think they want to prevent their technology from being used as a political toll which is why they prevented the US government from licensing it. We all know the US government would use it as a tool for political purposes. |
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Re: GWE is a tad scary! Wanting to take over the world? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 15:28:36 UTC | | I noticed that about GWE right at the beginning, but I don't see it as scary. I also don't see it as window dressing. They didn't need to insist on those terms since (if what they say is true, and after much deep consideration I've concluded it must be), everyone would want what they have and why would they limit the amount of money they could make for the sake of window dressing? I see their position as positive. If you think about it, what's wrong with insisting on people being treated fairly and ethically? So much of world policy revolves around the need for energy. Who has it, who needs it, and what countries will morally compromise to get it. To me it's kind of refreshing to see people with the courage to insist on making life better for the average people of the world if governments want to benefit from something private individuals have created. I APPLAUD GWE. All of humanity would have owned the technology if world leaders had got together responsibly to solve the world's energy and environmental problems. GWE did it and it rightfully belongs to them with my sincere thanks and congratulations. |
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Re: GWE is a tad scary! Wanting to take over the world? (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 01:59:57 UTC | RedPill and others,
I feel that GWE desires to use their technology as a political tool. Too many of their statements are political in nature. Also, the new revelation that having most of their staff be WOMEN also really scares me. Not because they have women employees, scientists, or investigators. That is not an issue! But the issue is that they are pushing politics along with their technology!
For goodness sakes, if they are pushing POLITICS with their technology, how do we know that they could not FILL THE WORLD with these devices (and since they are rigged with self destruct mechanisms anyway, GPS, etc) threaten to TURN THEM ALL OFF if certain countries don't follow THEIR POLITICAL RULES?
Don't you consider that a threat?
Now, don't get me wrong! I applaud GWE for developing this technology. We need it for this world to survive. But we must be very careful, because a technology such as this cannot come along with a political spin. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 @ 18:55:32 UTC | MUST READ! GWE COMMENT: NOTICED THIS ONE AT THE BOTTOM OF ANOTHER THREAD
The NDA's (Non-Disclosure Agreements) are very strict and unilateral, so it's difficult to say much without approval and being subject to severe legal penalties. My source is one of the few persons within GWE that can grant permission person to discuss any matter related to the project. They said I could pass along the following points to ZP Energy readers:
1: Nearly every key role within the group is managed and handled by women. In fact, there are very few men in the group at all. The project organizers feel that played a key role in meeting the project's objectives.
2. The wording on their website is very carefully chosen and is true and accurate. Anything that is placed on the website goes through several stages of construction and approval. As a result, very little that is written by the technology team ever makes it to the web site in anything like its original state. Wording that is vague is intended to be that way for reasons that are important to the project. You will find that the vague statements will be replaced over time with detail.
3. All of the energy devices based on the technology that were planned have already been developed and will be released over time in accordance with GWE's plan. I think it's safe to say that very few energy markets will be left untouched by the technology.
4. Development and preproduction versions of Edison Device have been operating essentially flawlessly for over a year. The team feels that consumers will be very pleased.
5. The team has experienced organized opposition in taking the technology to market, although that was expected and anticipated. Many of those efforts to try and stop the technology from going forward violate a range of civil and criminal laws and some of the perpetrators post false information about the project on this website. The team feels it has made good choices in developing and implementing its strategies and is very pleased with the results. World response has been overwhelming positive.
I hope this helps. I was allowed to share this information by the team in gratitude for the positive and supportive comments that have been made about the project by ZP Energy and its readers. This may be the only time information on the project is permitted to be released outside of the GWE website.
CK
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 01:56:14 UTC | CK,
Can you elaborate on why the project is mostly ran by women?
I understand that women should not be discriminated against. They should be treated just like men when it comes to work, jobs, careers, rights, etc.
But why in the world would a company need to run a project almost entirely with women? I mean, there is nothing "wrong" with that. But it tells me that their project is also VERY political in nature, and that SCARES me!
Are the leaders of this group femanists by any chance? What is the purpose of women being in charge?
Again, there is nothing WRONG with this. But I find it SCARY that political motivations are involved.
If I came out with a technology I would want it to be distributed far and wide as quickly as possible WITHOUT regards to political implications.
A technology such as this should not be used for political gain!
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 02:07:38 UTC | Dudes... I just thought of something.
What if GWE was pushing an agenda of sorts? I mean, it seems they have a political agenda they want to push with their technology. I don't have a thing against women, but why have the project full of women? How can that be an IMPORTANT part of their technology?
I mean, does ESTROGEN activate the Edison device's reactants or something?
I mean, I don't mind women being involved, or even almost all women being involved. But if there is ANOTHER political issue they are pushing, that is dangerous.
I don't like the idea I am thinking of.
If this technology is legit, and I believe it is, take the following scenerio:
Many hundreds of millions of units are sold across the world far cars, homes, businesses, etc.
Many nations become dependent on this technology as an energy source.
Certain nations don't follow the party line that GWE has SET IN STONE for countries that use this technology...
GWE sets down ADDITIONAL rules and regulations...
Then they are NOT FOLLOWED....
Then GWE simply threatens to REMOTELY DE-ACTIVATE or SELF DESTRUCT all of the devices!
Now, I am NOT saying this would or could happen. I do NOT have anything against GWE. I applaud them for their vision, their efforts, their development of this technology, and for all their hard work.
I THANK THEM for what they are doing. Because I hope their technology works great and makes them a bunch of money, because they deserve it for actually making such a technology happen.
But we MUST be careful! Because pushing an ideology with such technology is dangerous! Whether it is a GOOD ideology or a BAD one is irrelavent.
Power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutely, and I believe to insure that a technology does not give a certain group (good group or bad group) more power than another the technology must be made available to the ENTIRE WORLD! Not just the ones that follow the party line....
Ok, I admit it, I may be a little over cautious. And I really don't want to seem critical of GWE. (Hey guys, you are doing a great job, keep up the great work!) We need to support and encourage them!
But don't you all find their POLITICAL MOTIVATIONS kind of strange?
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 05:03:17 UTC | I'm sure the team appreciates everyone's thoughtful consideration. The women team members were selected because the team manager felt they were the best people for the job. There was no political agenda associated with the selection of team members. The truth is that the team organizers didn't want the project limited by egos and preconceived ideas while requiring unparalleled loyalty. I many cases, women candidates were the best qualified and fit that bill better than the men candidates that were available for the roles. There were women with feminist views on the team. There also were men with strong anti-women views on the team as well. Both groups represented a minority of the team’s composition. Everyone respected everyone else’s views and got along great. The team’s overwhelming desire to do something positive for the world totally transcended sex, political and religious beliefs.
Genesis is not at all mandating their political views on the world. All they ask is that the technology be used to benefit and advance humanity. The team members have elected to prohibit governments that oppress and mistreat its citizens and other citizens of the world from benefiting from the technology. It’s as simple as that. The devices are not designed to be shut down remotely, and as far as I know there is never a possibility that they ever will be. The team would never consider placing licensees and consumers in that type of untenable position. The devices can only be shut down as a result of intentional misuse by those that possess it. The team went through great personal sacrifice and expense to make this possible and they don't want others stealing their hard work and unfairly benefiting.
FYI: If you look closely at the GWE website, you'll see that most of the money Genesis will make from the technology goes to support charitable and non-political causes that benefit humanity.
PS> I probably won't be able to answer many (if any) more questions at this time. I've truly enjoyed being given the opportunity to share some things with you.
CK
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 12:33:42 UTC | Thank you for sharing the information with us CK.
I hope you are correct, and that GWE is not pushing a political agenda. However, I would live in a small hut with no electricity before using a GWE device to power my home with any kind of "self-destruct" feature.
I also believe that they should profit from their technology. They deserve to profit from it for all their efforts and willingness to get this technology out to the world. However, putting any kind of self destruct feature or GPS device in each unit seems too "big brotherish" for my opinion. Yes, they are not governmentally related, but that is just taking things too far and I hope others will agree.
Other than that I hope things continue to progress nicely for them. A hydrogen economy would make us totally independent from Mideastern oil and would allow us to stay out of other nation's private business.
Well, again, thank you. I really appreciate what you have done for us by giving us some more information.
Also, please give GWE thanks from all of us for kindly allowing you to give us some more information.
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, April 24, 2003 @ 17:53:53 UTC | I have read their website again, I don't see anything about self destruct or a political agenda.
You should read it again.
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 11:58:28 UTC | With all politeness considered, you need to read their site again.
Obviously, you have missed the political comments...
For example, they specifically state that their devices have a self destruct mechanism (maybe not blow up, but stop functioning) if you take it outside of it's "allowed and preprogrammed" zone of operation.
Also, their concept of hiring almost all women for their project (which of course there is nothing wrong with) also kind of seems political. Are they saying that men could not do the same job or that women would do better? Are there feminists pushing some type of agenda? Hey, I don't mind if their whole crew is female as long as there was no agenda whatsoever and everyone was hired because they had the BEST RESUME of all other applicants and not because of their sex.
Also, look at the requirements for what countries this technology can be used in! They are going to deny this technology to any nation that does not fit their political guidelines. Also, look at their policy about what individual companies can can license and build their devices!
Now, again, I applaud GWE for all their hard work. I think their technology is amazing, and I don't think they are a scam. I am also not trying to belittle their hard work.
But their website is so vague (of corse, because it was written by a PR team and not scientists) that any political leanings expressed can make people very nervous.
GWE has the ability to make BILLIONS and BILLIONS from this technology. And you know what? More power to them! But if they have a political agenda to push then it frightens me, because power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutely.
Maybe I am just a bit paranoid, but you have to be in this day and time. Honestly, we may have absolutely nothing to worry about. But then again we need to keep on our toes. We need to continue to support GWE and spread the word about the great work they are doing. However, if they write more about their political leanings or don't elaborate more on what they have already expressed then we will have more questions to ask....
That is all I am saying. We will basically have more questions to ask.
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 15:13:33 UTC | I for one don't think I missed what you seem to think are political statements. I don't see these things as political in nature. To me, the word political implies something that benefits a target group of views at the expense of others who do not share the same views. Basic human rights and ethical business practices apply to everyone regardless of their political views. I see GWE as responsibly choosing to set a standard for doing business with countries and companies that offer people basic human rights and engage in ethical practices. What's wrong or political about that? I applaud them and see them as a shining example of how things should be done. What's the alternative? Governments and companies that will screw anybody for power and a buck? GO GWE!
From what I can tell, the feature that disables the system is designed to keep someone from trying to reverse engineer their technology, and is also used to make sure that what they've created only benefits the people and economies of the countries that are legitimately licensed to have it. Who can fault them for that? Think about the implications. Directly creating lots of jobs and boosting the local economies where the Edison Devices are marketed.
In another discussion thread on this article page, GWE answered the questions you raised related to the use of women on the team. What I think it comes down to is that they picked people they felt would make the project successful. In many cases, they felt the women candidates available to them appeared to be the best choices. You can't argue with the fact that they got the job done while everyone else was just talking about alternative energy. My question is, would the world even have this technology if it wasn't for these remarkable women (and men) and the way they chose to do things? At least that's one way to look at it.
Remember, when this technology hits the market, we all have the most important vote of all. If we don't like what GWE stands for, we can elect not to buy their products. I can already tell you though that I'll be the first in line at Home Depot to get one.
THANKS GWE
Emanuel
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 15:49:00 UTC | Emanuel,
It's nice to see that there people who know how to read. That is the way I understood it to be.
Thank you for explaining it to the readers.
Nick I
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 16:08:03 UTC | I have never heard of a device of any kind rigged with a GPS device that could cause the device to shut down.
That is one issue that really scares me. The potential for abuse of such a system is too high. Now, GWE may never abuse such a system and may have honorable intentions, but what if the government wanted to control this technology with such features?
You see, the powers that be that control the world do NOT want decentralized energy systems to exist. They take power and control from them and give it to individuals. Such a technology like GWE's (which is really facinating by the way) could do just that! It could liberate people around the world from the powers that be! If you don't like the government of your area, for example, you could move out into the boonies and as long as you have water you can have all the electricity you need!
I am just worried that such a system could be used by forces perhaps even HOSTILE to GWE to control these devices.
If I was a member of the "powers that be" I would want total control of these generators and the ability to shut them down incase certain people were trying to remove themselves from my control.
You see, I am NOT criticising GWE on this feature. I am simply trying to give a warning about how potentially it could be abused.
I simply think that they should sell the technology to anyone who will buy it. Their technology is NOT dangerous or able to be weaponized. Like it has been said, all they have done is put several different aspects of technology together to make something happen.
I think that it should be sold all over the world to anyone that wants it... All it does is generate electricity in ammounts suitable to power homes or businesses! To deny to the citizens of certain countries just because they may have a different political structure is wrong in my opinion.
I do applaud everyone in the group for making the technology a reality. But if you want to know the truth I believe that other groups have came up with producable free energy devices. Of course their technology is not free energy related at all and the first free energy device that does get produced will blow their technology away. However, perhaps the powers that be are willing to let a hydrogen device through to the market instead of a ZPE device.
You see, ZPE devices disprove all of physics and will eventually lead to space travel, faster than light travel, gravity control, unified field theories (such as the new one by Myron Evans) and so fourth.
They surely don't want that, but maybe they feel that they could use GWE as a tool to distract people away from overunity.
I think that it is great that GWE has a system that is about to go on the market, but I don't think they are the first to invent one (chemical or nuclear). But perhaps they were the first one that both became organized enough and was allowed to continue.
I do feel that GWE has issued political statements, but I understand your point of view too.
However, whether a country practices human rights or not, they should still have access to this technology.
Why take away such an important technology from already poor and mistreated people?!
By giving this technology to the entire world you benefit all people by reducing pollution and saving the environment!!
And about the women in their company, if they were hired because they were the most academically qualified then that is great. I just hope they are not going to try to make an issue of an all women group being the reason this went forward as part of a feminist campaign. Again, that might not at all be the cast. But I just don't understand why they feel that an almost all women crew was why the project succedded.
Anyway, I wish the very best for this company and hope they continue to develop the Edison device. And I hope they make billions of dollars.
I just don't think they should be allowed to choose which human beings benefit from their device and which ones do not.
Of course it is their technology and legally they can do whatever they want with it. I mean, if they only wanted to sell the device to women then that would be fine (I know for a fact that is not the case, only an example). But I am just saying that the entire world needs this technology, IMMEDIATELY with NO restraints (except that you pay GWE what they deserve in means of money).
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 18:44:11 UTC | Thank you for your thoughtful and supportive comments. I was able to gather a lot from them. I understand your concerns about the geopolitical implications of decentralized energy generation. That was something the team had to research and consider carefully at the beginning of the project. I'm sure you already know that the United States (probably among other countries) possesses (and uses) a number of different technologies that are capable of instantly frying any type of electrical and electronic equipment. I understand that some of these devices can even be used in aircraft and can wipe out services over a very large area in a very short time. I guess the point is that what ever we come up with, they can come up with some independent way of addressing it. Nothing GWE does will solve that and the people of the world will never be free from the potential of having their energy taken away from them.
There is literally no way the Edison Device can be shut down remotely. It is not capable of receiving instructions. That was a very important issue for the team. Someone has to physically try to break into the gCell stacks or move the device someplace where it is not authorized to be moved to for the systems to shut down. Consumers will be permitted to move Edison Devices into other authorized countries through a permission process, which can be obtained quickly and will not be unreasonably withheld by GWE. Once permission is granted, the consumer will be given a code that will reactivate the system.
One thing to consider is the fact that the citizens of most nations that do not offer basic human rights are too poor to buy the systems without their government’s assistance. Buying Edison Devices will be much cheaper for governments than continuing to use fossil fuels, and who knows how long those fossil fuels will last. I'm sure GWE feels that the availability of very low cost energy may give these governments an incentive to reevaluate their human rights policies. That will especially be the case eventually when traditional energy is in very short supply.
Finally, the Edison Device clearly qualifies as an over unity device. Under worst case conditions, the system produces a minimum of 7.77 times more energy than its energy generation process consumes. Tests on variations of the technology have been run that produced over 100 times as much energy as consumed.
Hope that helps.
Regards, CK
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so now it is a perpetual motion machine (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 23:57:46 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Is the first law or second law broken? Does it get cold? Can we place it in the house in the summer to cool the house? Can we get rid of our fridges and just use our type II pmm's to cool our food?
Finally, the Edison Device clearly qualifies as an over unity device. Under worst case conditions, the system produces a minimum of 7.77 times more energy than its energy generation process consumes. Tests on variations of the technology have been run that produced over 100 times as much energy as consumed.
Hope that helps.
Regards, CK
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More meaningless puke from chipotle pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 07:42:08 UTC | Hey moron, does the sodium boride hydrogen on demand from water system produced by Mellinium Cell (a public company) violate the first and second laws of thermodynamics and represent perpetual motion? I know, thats to tough of a question for someone like you. The puke you're spewing now is just what I would expect from scum like you, someone who openly admits to lying about GWE and sinking to any level including blackmail to try and stop or discredit them. I'm in the US Military and I heat my MREs (meals ready to eat) with a military issue MRE Heater. Its a transparent plastic pouch that you cut open and add water to. It generates lots of heat AND the big warning on the lable on the pouch advises not to place it near an open flame because it releases large amounts of pure HYDROGEN. Imagine that, only water added, no energy in, with heat, energy and hydrogen out. I already know what your response to this will be, Mellinium Cell is engaged in a stock fraud and the government is perperuating a scam on its soldiers. Is there anyway we can vote this chipotle pickle liar off the island?
Sgt. B. Hamilton |
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sodiumborohydride vs moboronmosulfide (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 11:17:38 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Sodiumborohydride is a fuel, and a pretty nifty one. But it does not put out more energy than is put in. An MRE heater converts chemical potential energy into heat. And it takes a lot of energy to refine from the oxides, back at the factory. That's the real world, not OU.
There are two publicly traded PMM stock fraud scams, but I will not mention them on this list for fear that readers will go buy the stock. And PMM's are not the only type of technology scam to get a lot of investment. The last few years have seen impossible communications, impossible memory, impossible arithmetic, and the Clonaid scams as well.
And, no, I've never admitted to lying about GWE or blackmailing anyone. Don't be silly. |
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Re: More And More Spewing Puke From Chipotle Pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 12:19:00 UTC | Hey, as a nice change for everyone here why don't you try doing some real research in the matters you present as fact and while you're at it, try reading you own post from yesterday again. The evidence is right there for everyone to see. You can't even keep your lies straight. Oh, I forgot, you obviously can't read, just spew puke.
PS: Whoever it was that started it, thanks for describing what this guy says as spewing puke. A perfect choice of words in my opinion.
Thank you GWE
Bill Thompson, New Mexico |
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Re: More And More Spewing Puke From Chipotle Pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 15:35:21 UTC | Hi Bill,
This guy definately does not know how to read, plus he has a bad memory.
When I see his posting I go right past him. He is so predictable.
Frank |
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Re: More meaningless puke from chipotle pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 16:13:48 UTC | Sgt.
Thanks for taking your time to explain this to us 99.9% really appreciate it.
Chipotle probably beliefs that we never had a man walk on the moon.
Sgt. Hamilton I salute.
Rober M.
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Re: so now it is a perpetual motion machine (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 12:33:17 UTC | chipotle_pickle,
First of all, your motives are becoming more obvious all the time! There is on such thing as perpetual motion!
But there is a such thing as overunity by extracting energy from elsewhere.
Energy is all around us in many forms. And there are indeed devices that tap such energies.
What is the issue if their device is overunity of one type or another? What is the issue!?
Are you opposed to that idea? The newly being revealed TRUTH that all the energy we ever will need is in the vacumm of empty space?!
Well, GET USED TO IT! Because it is a reality!
And guess what dude... A unified field theory to explain ALL of it is coming through the pipes too! |
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so now it is a perpetual motion machine (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 12:58:27 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | So maybe you could explain my motives.
Extracting energy from ambient heat or vacum of space is generally considered a second law of thermodynamics problem. Not a first law problem. That's why I asked if it got cold. There is an OK article on this site [www.zpenergy.com] about effects, other than cold, to look for in an OU device. I should have asked, if any of these effects are displayed as well.
Let them put the OU claim on their site and it will be interesting. The energy from space theory is yours, not theirs. I note that it's not on their site. AC claims are, well, things people don't want to come back to them, for one reason or another. You can sure I'll be quoting the 7X energy input claim on my site, but I'll have to couch it in
I don't know if it was really GWE posting as CK, or just a prankster trying to make the zpe list look silly.
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Re: so now it is a perpetual motion machine (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 15:55:18 UTC | Interesting when someone exposes you, your defense is always to discredit the other person.
Here is something for you to think about.
Speaking without thinking is like shooting without
aiming.
Chris |
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Re: Still More Stupid Opinions From Chipotle Pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 16:57:57 UTC | I've come to the conclusion that you suffer from the lack of ability to comprehend the written word. When you combine that with your own made up facts, it spells TOTAL LOSER. If anyone doesn't believe this guys a total loser, his web site about GWE. You can find it on Google if you do a search on Genesis World Energy. Lots of made up stuff that tries to discredit GWE without offering a single thread of real evidence that any of it is based on fact.
Here's a clue pickle. GWE's web site has always said they have developed a way to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen using far less energy than their precess created. How can anyone read that as anything but over unity? Dah. No issue there, but now you're trying to make it one.
Get a clue, ever since your the one that makes the zp list look silly.
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CK does NOT make GWE look silly! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 23:27:29 UTC | First of all, I would just like to say that CK does NOT make GWE look silly! He was very kind and actually answered many of our questions. Please do not accuse him of anything when all he has done is help us out.
I also thank GWE for allowing him to post and answer some of our questions!
Additionally, I don't know if the GWE device is overunity or not. But I do not understand how they can get so much power from just a few ounces of water if it is purely chemical.
Now, it could somehow be releasing energy from fission or fusion.
If a device is not chemical or nuclear then the only thing it can be is overunity.
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Re: CK does NOT make GWE look silly! (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 01:48:55 UTC | I also would like to thank CK for taking his/or her time to explain to us this amazing technology.
Who ever implied that CK made GWE look silly must be out to lunch? CK and a few other contributors to the ZP Energy site are the only people that had something intelligent to write.
Their writing obviously is a culture shock to some readers
Thank you, CK.
NK
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 12:29:12 UTC | That helped tremendously.
I really appreciate your comments and information about GWE, the reasonings, etc.
I do have another question however. You just confirmed that the GWE is producing overunity by some means. But do they believe that their device is extracting energy from the vacumm, extracting more energy from water than is CHEMICALLY possible, or do they believe that their process is somewhere between nuclear and chemical?
Perhaps I am wrong, but unless the process is overunity or at least something more than purely chemical it seems that a few ounces of water simply does not contain enough chemical energy to power a home for as long as they state.
Could you please find out and let us know exactly what mechanism this device uses to produce the extra energy?
Thanks so much! You have been a HUGE benefit to this board, and we really do appreciate your time and help. |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 16:39:22 UTC | Emanuel,
It's nice to see that there people who know how to read. That is the way I understood it to be.
Thank you for explaining it to the readers.
Nick I
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Re: Questions: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 11:56:57 UTC | How many of the members of the "team" are women?
Will any of the licensees be allowed to disclose even generic information regarding their independent tests?
Wouldn't this greatly benefit GWE in terms of credibility? |
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Re: Questions: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 12:04:42 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I was going to ask the same thing (referring to your second question) Are licensees restricted from posting their independent lab tests or speaking about the edison device at all. I would certainly love to hear what those who get to toy with it have to say about it. |
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Re: Questions: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 12:13:23 UTC | | Exactly. It will also be interesting to see what the automotive/locomotive idustry does with the HICEF/automotive application. Or if their lack of credibility will hurt GWE's efforts. What could it hurt to allow any of the parties to discuss the success or failures of any testing? |
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Re: Questions: Answer#2 (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 15:54:54 UTC | GWE only sends things out for independent lab testing that have already proven satisfactory, reliable and have been tested extensively internally within its own organization. To date, there have been no failures in independent lab tests.
Both the automotive and locomotive manufacturers are already moving ahead with the Genesis Technology.
CK
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Re: Questions: Answer#2 (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 16:23:07 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Thats terrific news!!!
I guess GWE anready has some modified vehicles using the Genesis HICEF technology?
Will GWE be posting a Q&A session on the automotive solution?
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Re: Questions: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry and more (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 12:14:57 UTC | | Exactly. It will also be interesting to see what the automotive/locomotive idustry does with the HICEF/automotive application. Or if their lack of credibility will hurt GWE's efforts. What could it hurt to allow any of the parties to discuss the success or failures of any testing? |
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Re: Questions: preoccupation (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 13:55:55 UTC | | I guess I don't get it - what is the preoccupation with the number of women involved? Does it really matter? I would have to admit - female involvement is somewhat intriguing but when it comes down to it -Who cares? |
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Re: Questions: preoccupation (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 13:56:26 UTC | | I guess I don't get it - what is the preoccupation with the number of women involved? Does it really matter? I would have to admit - female involvement is somewhat intriguing but when it comes down to it -Who cares? |
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Re: Questions: preoccupation (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 14:29:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I don't get why you keep posting the same post twice.
I don't get why you keep posting the same post twice.
:)
:) |
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Re: Answering Your Latest Questions Red (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 15:41:25 UTC | Sorry, but it's GWE's policy not to give out specific information on the team.
Credibility with who Red, the public? GWE does not have dealings with the pubic. The public's opinion only matters when the systems are available on the market to purchase. At that point, it will be up to the Licensees to present whatever information to consumers they feel they want to, including their own independent lab results. GWE will not disclose which independent labs it uses, because those labs will be responsible for testing proprietary designs in the future and disclosing that informaton to the public would comprimise security.
CK
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Re: Answering Your Latest Questions Red (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 15:55:15 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | It makes sense not to disclose the labt GWE uses for security reasons, but are you saying the licensees are not allowed to disclose any information about the device untill after they have them on the market? It would make sense not to disclose any information since they would be entering a competitive market with others who may be trying to build their version of the device for the same market.
CK, Thanks again for the information.
Also, can you explain the next steps after the May 2nd deadline for the NDA's? Do the Manufacturing data packages go out at that point. and does the clock start ticking to get a product to market (quoting the license terms "9 months from receiving the license)?
Thanks in advance! |
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Re: Answering Your Latest Questions Red (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 17:03:43 UTC | Hi RedPill, nice to talk to you again. The licensees will be free to release product specifications and test information the moment they've received the licenses, but I doubt that they will because they wouldn't want to let their competitors have that information. You're exactly right about the competitive market considerations in releasing that information.
The 9 months starts on the date the licenses are awarded. There are several steps yet to accomplish to facilitate the award of licenses, including providing them with product specifications and costing information so that they can get a handle on what it's going to take to get in production. Armed with that information, they will need to formalize and submit their final proposals. The licensees that are selected are then provided with the license agreements and are given the opportunity to independently examine operating systems. Once that's done, the licenses are awarded to all licensees on the same day. I don’t have the information on when the licenses will be awarded, but I would guess it will be sometime this summer.
Hope that helps,
CK
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Re: Answering Your Latest Questions Red (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 22:41:54 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I certainly appreciate the time you are spending with us here at ZPEnergy and for answering some questions. Im sure I'll think of more soon.
RedPill |
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Re: linking Edison devices (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 11:11:37 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Can multiple residential edison devices be linked together? GWE website states "For heavier commercial requirements, multiple Edison Devices can be linked together." I dont know if this only means the commercial can be linked. Some of us may require greater output then 7Kw per hour. |
Re: linking Edison devices (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, April 25, 2003 @ 17:22:39 UTC | Hi Again RedPill,
As is the case with the commercial device, any number of home devices can be linked together to create as much energy as needed. The home and commercial versions can also be linked with each other. Everything is literally designed to be compatible with everything else. In fact, all devices sold by any licensee will also be compatible with all other competitor’s devices.
The 7kW electrical output figure you've used is correct for only the generator part of the home device, but you probably won't ever be limited to just 7kW at any one time. Depending on which batteries are selected by licensees to work with the generator, up to 30 kW of electricity (or more) may be able to be drawn from the complete Edison Device at any one time because of electricity held in reserve within the batteries. Remember, the generator is designed to charge the batteries at predetermined constant rates based on how low the batteries are. Another interesting point is that the eCells in the Edison Device are capable of generating up to 50% more electricity than the Edison Device’s rated capacity for shorter periods of time.
Regards, CK
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Re: I see the light!! (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 13:02:39 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Now Im begining to understand how the device actually works. That clears up alot for me.
Thanks!
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FCC approval (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Saturday, April 26, 2003 @ 14:42:35 UTC | Has this device been granted FCC approval?
If approval has not been sought when does GWE plan to do so?
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Re: FCC approval (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 12:38:02 UTC | | Won't this be the responsibility of the manufacturers? Considering they could potentially be manufacturing in different part of the world - each county having different requirements and regulations? |
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Re: FCC approval (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 16:00:19 UTC | | Why would they need FCC approval? |
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Underwriter's Lab, not FCC (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 18:47:19 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | It's a good question. But they say clearly that it's the licensees job to get UL or other locally required certifications. |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab, not FCC (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Sunday, April 27, 2003 @ 20:52:30 UTC | | So the problems may lie in the hands of the manufacturers...ie., the potential failure to get approval ? It will be interesting to see if some countries approve and others don't. Does anyone know of the variances in the regulations from country to country? I am assuming that there are many more countries that our more restrictive than the US. |
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Re: What about the 12 auctioned devices (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 08:04:45 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I would imagine that GWE will need to seek UL certification if they plan on auctioning off 12 usable devices to the public. |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is darn tough (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 @ 16:04:59 UTC | | Do you know how long this process takes? Could this hold up manufacturing. |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is darn tough (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 @ 16:55:02 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | for all we know the the device might be getting tested now or even near completion. It sounds like GWE is ahead of the game and probably covered that base. |
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would you please take the red pill already (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 @ 20:45:57 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | The site used to be quite clear that it was up to the licensee to get UL approval. It's off their site now, but you can find it in the google cache. Why not look for it yourself? Just to make sure that it was a legit red pill. It could be the beginning of a wonderful life of checking and crosschecking things for yourself, and maybe, one day, even thinking for yourself. |
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Re: would you please take the red pill already (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 08:42:37 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | What exactly do you mean Chipotle? Why are you throwing jabs at me? Thinking for myself??? What is your problem with me? If YOU would read the posts above. It CLEARLY states the GWE plans on auctioning off 12 devices "COMPLETELY ASSEMBLED BY GWE" to the public. not a licensee. So that would mean GWE would need to seek all the proper certifications, approvals. etc. if they plan to provide 12 functioning devices to the public. I WOULD SUGGEST YOU TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE CP. |
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Usage Laws and Consumer Certifications (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 10:23:17 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I think you need water with the red pill. Try google [www.google.com].
2 Usage Laws and Consumer Certifications:
Because all licensees have the right to custom configure Edison devices to meet the needs of their target market, it will be the responsibility of each licensee to obtain any and all related product approvals required by local law or codes, where required. Licensees shall also assume the responsibility for obtaining Underwriter's Laboratories or other consumer related certifications.
I have no idea where you got the idea they would auction off 12 units to the public. Maybe you are thinking of a different scam. |
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Re: Usage Laws and Consumer Certifications (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 10:53:37 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I think you need to some glasses.
You have no idea because you didn't do your reading. A post in this section by CK stated the following.
"Based on what I know, there should be some systems available from licensees in 2003, but they probably won't be widely available until 2004. FYI: Currently, the plan is that the first twelve production Edison Devices will be auctioned off to the public well in advance of any devices being available from licensees. All proceeds from these auctioned devices will go to charity. The devices being auctioned will be unique because they will probably be the only Edison Devices entirely built by GWE and delivered to the public. "
Maybe if you weren't so blinded by your hate for GWE you would have remembered that post.
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Usage Laws and Consumer Certifications (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 11:32:47 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | | Thanks for the reference. But since it comes from an anonymous nobody, and disagrees with what GWE has on the site, it's not too reliable. Less reliable even than what GWE puts on its site. |
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Re: Usage Laws and Consumer Certifications (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 12:00:35 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | If you want to accept it as unreliable then fine. But dont start redirecting those little degading comments toward me, when in fact it was you who didn't read the information available.
You have no right to make a statement of "Thinking for myself" when you have no clue as to what level of reliability I am treating the information posted by that anon user as.
So just quit it with the degrading comments and lets try to talk intelligently about the topic. If you fell someone is incorrect about their post, then post a comment without attacking their character.
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I forgot this was a polite forum (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 12:29:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | Where we don't make derogatory remarks about other posters' character. I really ought not to have singled you out Red Pill, and did so only because of your handle. My bad.
I just want to give a nudge to the whole list, to check facts for yourselves. Especially when GWE makes a clear statement about the UL, you can find it easily yourselves. (Just not as easily as you could find it two weeks ago.) |
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Re: I forgot this was a polite forum (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 13:47:30 UTC | You are an extremely rude person. I have to give Red Pill a lot of credit for keeping his cool. Your job obviously is NOT people related.
A couple of days ago I saw this posting for you, maybe you missed it.
Quote: Albert Einstein
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
Red Pill, enjoy reading your comments. Intellegent.
Jim B
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Re: I forgot this was a polite forum (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 13:48:26 UTC | you are an extremely rude person. I have to give Red Pill a lot of credit for keeping his cool. Your job obviously is NOT people related.
A couple of days ago I saw this posting for you, maybe you missed it.
Quote: Albert Einstein
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 14:23:07 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | I have been informed that a UL certification is not a requirement, so it would be GWE's decision on wether or not to seek out the famous UL label.
If and when they do auction those devices off, I would love to see the bidding war that will take place as well as the final bid that wins one. Anyone taking bets as to what the winning bid will be?
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by test on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 22:34:59 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | a stick of used chewing gum? |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by test on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 @ 22:54:02 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | Does GWE have the technology patented? |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, May 01, 2003 @ 10:04:08 UTC | NO. According to their wesite: "Simply stated, the Genesis team has elected to protect its intellectual properties and or proprietary trade secrets utilizing different and varied mechanisms rather than those afforded through the traditional patent process."
Interesting......???? |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by test on Thursday, May 01, 2003 @ 22:40:28 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | What a load of bollocks lol |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Friday, May 02, 2003 @ 09:30:42 UTC | I know I would feel a lot better about this if they went through the Patent process rather than the NDA approach. I just don't think the NDA provides the protection or credibility that a Patent does.
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by test on Friday, May 02, 2003 @ 11:52:55 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I agree. Surely if they do not have a patent somebody could just take a device apart and then patent the technology for themselves. I think for this obvious reason GWE is just another scam (not even a very good one). |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 @ 11:52:27 UTC | | If you read their informaiton - they have a self-destruct mechanism that circumvents that from happening. If the device is tampered with it will no longer work. |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by test on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 @ 17:44:12 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | | I think it's very silly. |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Thursday, May 08, 2003 @ 09:57:51 UTC | Why do you say that? The very first model of VCR's that had been developed somewhere in Japan incorporated a "self-destruct" mechanism to keep other companies from stealing the inner workings of the very first VCR.
Was that also silly? |
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Re: Underwriter's Lab is not required (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Thursday, May 08, 2003 @ 10:27:41 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | There is nothing wrong with protecting your technology. If I out endless hours of work and dedication into my technology you better bet I am going to protect it the best I could to prevent someone from reverse engineering it and changine the process and putting your technology on the market under their name.
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silly (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, May 08, 2003 @ 11:48:03 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | I think what the poster meant is that it's silly to take the GWE story seriously when they act like a scam, provide no proof, or even spokesperson to stand behind their claims, provide an internally inconsistent story, change their story from place to place, and lie about their investors.
About the UL. I don't know who told you that UL approval would not be required. If you live in a normal house, pay a normal mortgage, and have regular fire insurance, then it's required. And the UL would never approve the mishmosh shown in the photos, even if all the parts listed as "not shown" were added. For example, ask yourself this. When the 0.5 (GWE's number) or 0.62 (my number) volt fuel cells are producing 7.1 Kwatts of power, how much waste heat do they produce? About 10 Kwatts (more if you use their number). The UL is going to be pretty antsy about what's essentially an oven sitting inside the same housing as a pressurised fuel tank, even if there is a cooling system. And GWE has never mentioned a cooling system.
About the auction. Someone reminded me what scam that is from. It's Newman who auctioned off 12 motors in 2000.
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Newman/
I don't know if he actually sold any. |
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Re: silly (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Thursday, May 08, 2003 @ 14:00:25 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | UL certification is not a requirement by any law. The UL is an Independent product safety testing and
certification organization. Their service provides piece of mind to the consumer that the device has been tested and proven safe by UL standards. Its certainly a boost to your product but in no way is a requirement.
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ul certification required to *use* (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Thursday, May 08, 2003 @ 14:22:00 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | UL certification is a requirement of your contract with your fire insurance company, and fire insurance by your mortgage contract. Maybe you've paid your mortgage off and don't worry about fire insurance. But for working slobs, UL approval is required.
Why don't you try this. Call your fire insurance company, and tell them you want to put in a 7 KW fuel cell generator, UPS system, and inverter. Don't tell them where the hydrogen is going to come from. If they ask, say it's from some nifty safe dry chemical process, and that THAT system is already UL approved. Ask them if UL approval of the fuel cells, UPS, and inverter would be required by your policy. Ask them how much it would cost to get a policy written that would allow you to attach a non-UL approved system to your house. Try to record the conversation, because at some point, they are going to start stuttering or laughing.
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Re: Patents and TM's (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 @ 09:08:32 UTC | Not only is their 'technology' not patented, did you happen to notice all the TM's after their name and Genesis HICEF? Give it a quick search at the Patent & Trademark Office. Do you think you'll find it??
I couldn't!! |
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Genesis Patents and TM's (Score: 1)
by TilEulenspiegel on Sunday, July 17, 2005 @ 20:15:22 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com/ | | There is one wordmark, for "GWE Technologies". It's owned by Foundation Energy, a De corporation that no longer exists. HICEF, igas, Edison Device et all are not trademarked. |
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One GWE promise holds true - No UL testing (Score: 1)
by TilEulenspiegel on Sunday, July 17, 2005 @ 20:23:11 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com/ | The UL has a nice facility listing all their certified products. GWE/UFCT/... is not there:
http://www.ul.com/dge/fuelcells/regs.html#list
I've checked competing testers as well.
And about that auction. There was no auction. Redpill, who was the source who fed you all this baloney? |
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Re: Why the lack of media coverage (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 12:57:50 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | This question is directed to CK,
Do you have any insight as to why such a revolutoinary device received so little attention. There was some media coverage, and you can find it all over the web but as far as the media giants go, there was no coverage, I thought for sure you would see it on CNN, or bloomberg, FOX News, ect... I would assume that they are sitting back and waiting to see how it develops before they cover it but I just don't get it. I sent some friends over to the GWE website and they all say the same thing. "If its so revolutionary, why haven't I heard of it" assuming that it would be plastered all over the news. |
Re: Why the lack of media coverage (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 14:19:36 UTC | Hi RedPill,
They've had lots of requests from media all over the world to provide interviews, but they will not grant them or provide any more information than is offered on the GWE website. They don't want to be distracted from getting their job done as quickly as possibly. They only issued the press releases so that all interested parties would have a fair and equal opportunity at obtaining licenses.
That approach has worked out for them very well. They literally have a far more qualified demand than they can satisfy.
CK
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Re: Why the lack of media coverage (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 15:26:42 UTC | CK--
What would be the harm of doing a demo for the media? One day to bring legitimacy to GWE's claims and to stifle the critics hardly appears to be a wast of time or a material distraction.
Thanks for all the insight you had provided!
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Re: Interesting Media Question (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 19:51:46 UTC | Who say's members of the media haven't already been invited to previous demonstrations? They have been. The real question is can anyone that’s been invited to a demonstration discuss what they've seen? Nope.
The team’s policy is that until the technology is safely on the market, everyone that comes in contact with it must execute and adhere to a VERY strict confidentiality agreement. The team feels there's a proper time and place for everything, and they feel the proper time and place for public attention is when demand can be satisfied. Until then, what purpose would it truly serve? Maybe this will help: Careful contemplation of the broad implications of every action the team has taken and will need to take in the future might help bring the reasoning behind their methodology into proper perspective.
I’d like to thank everyone for their thoughtful questions and supportive comments.
CK
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Re: Interesting Media Question (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, June 09, 2003 @ 19:22:34 UTC | | scam |
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 15:39:53 UTC | I want to thank Rastahal for this very article. It has been one of the best readings about energy ever.
Also a special thanks to chipotle_pickle who has made this discussion to be delicious. I have had a lot of laughs hitherto. It is everyones right to be suspicious when facts is that unclear as in this case.
I am quite suspicious myself, because there is a lot of facts that do not correspond to eachother. There are also failures in technical vocabularies that are of very low art. For instance kW is not energy, and so on.
One can crave a lot more from such a hightech source.
Anyway, keep the fire burning and let this discussion last forever.
Bjoern |
Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 1)
by RedPill on Monday, April 28, 2003 @ 16:44:48 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) | Don't quote me on my use of Kw like I stated before. I am trying to understand the power output from an "explain it in english" standpoint. i tried to use simple math to figure out the numbers but im not sure if i was using the terminoligy right.
This is certainly a great thread, in the "Top 10" section this article is 1st in terms of comments, 2nd place had only 36 or something comments. Definetly keep it going. Its a fantastic read!! |
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Re:chipotle_pickle (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 @ 02:30:59 UTC | Quote: Albert Einstein
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
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Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 06, 2003 @ 15:09:46 UTC | I believe GWE's latest annoucement is where the rubber will meet the road, pardon the pun. If what they say they have is concrete, auto makers who profess to welcome the hydrogen economy should be beating down their doors.
GM, Ford and the like have claimed, storage and infrastructure are the problem. This solves both.
All the car manufactures surely want to be the first to market with an automobile that does not rely on gasoline and is environmentally clean.
If what GWE professes is true, we will know soon enough. |
Re: GWE announces new technology for the auto industry (Score: 0)
by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 @ 11:54:51 UTC | | It will be interesting to see exactly contacts them and submits proposals. It wouldn't surprise me if the Big Guys opt not to utilize the technology and Europe climbs on board. They seem to be more open minded than the US. |
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So Crystal, it's been a month that you've had the NDAs (Score: 1)
by chipotle_pickle on Saturday, May 31, 2003 @ 13:29:37 UTC
(User Info | Send a Message) http://freehydrogen.blogspot.com | And all the license candidates have gotten is an email letting them know that their NDAs were recieved. And even THAT was only after Vlad posted an article from anonymous complaining about not hearing anything back from you guys. No test results. No video (like Diana promised C Horianopolous). No information on how they can perform their own test. You spend more effort posting here than in working with those guys.
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